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  #1  
Old 09-13-2006, 10:44 PM
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DarrellK DarrellK is offline
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Default One strong fuselage

Hat tip to Andy Millin on the Reflector.

Aircraft's pilot says he was lucky to survive wreck

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld...chonline_local
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Last edited by DarrellK : 09-14-2006 at 02:43 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2006, 08:55 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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And a big boo hiss to the reporter who states the Velocity was designed by Burt Rutan. Typical. I guess they don't google either.
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2006, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks
And a big boo hiss to the reporter who states the Velocity was designed by Burt Rutan. Typical. I guess they don't google either.
Actually I thought the reporter got it right by stating the Velocity was based off designs by aircraft designer Burt Rutan.

The Velocity is definitely not a Rutan aircraft design, but no one can deny that most of the major design elements come directly from Rutan’s modern canard design.
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Old 09-14-2006, 10:13 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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I originally responded:
"Nope. To my knowledge the Velocity eminated from its own design process based on an airframe with a canard wing. As best as I know, Velocity did not take an RAF design and morph it into a Velocity. Are they kissing cousins? Yeah, perhaps."

Now, going off and doing some research in an attempt to validate my opinion:
The history from the Velocity website leads off with the sentence, "Velocity Aircraft Inc., was formed in 1984 by Danny Maher in Sebastian, Florida, to develop and market a new 4-seat canard aircraft, based upon the successful Long-EZ design." So maybe my above opinion is just opinion for now. "Based" is open for interpretation I guess. The original Velocity resembles the Long-EZ in form, yes. The wing planforms were definitely different and it certainly didn't park nose down. It also had just a hatch opening instead of full sideways opening canopy. I seem to recall that Maher used the construction processes (canard, moldless layups) based off what Rutan pioneered. I still don't think it morphed from the Long-EZ. Again, my as-of-yet-unvalidated opinion.

And the boo hiss goes to me for not accurately reading the article. (Where's that sword?)

And no slight against Velocity. I actually love the design. Sexy.
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Last edited by Wayne Hicks : 09-14-2006 at 10:40 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-14-2006, 11:24 AM
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I guess my opinion comes from just looking at them and also understanding how they are designed structurally. They both have swept wings that come out of the middle of the fuselage. They both have the same type of winglets and rudders. They both have tricycle landing gear with the engine in the back. The ratios of wing to canard to fuselage lengths are similar. But what really gets me is how the wing and canard spars are constructed and the way the main spar is attached to the firewall and gets much of its torsional strength from the strakes. The wings are bolted on the same way. The list goes on and on.

In short, the list of similarities far out weighs the list of differences.
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Old 09-14-2006, 12:12 PM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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I'm agreeing with you that they are kissing cousins. I'm just splitting hairs with you for sake of casual, friendly conversation. The Cozy IV truly eminated from the Burt Rutan design. Nat started with the Long-EZ plans and modified them to build the Cozy series. Put the Cozy plans side by side with the Long EZ plans and you can see they are mostly identical chapter by chapter, step by step, word for word.

I don't think Maher started with Long EZ plans. The Velocity may have eminated from RAF's concept of a moldless constructed canard aircraft. But I bet he started from a clean sheet of paper.

"my opinion comes from just looking at them"
----> Yes, all canards sort of look similar. (kissing cousins)

"understanding how they are designed structurally."
-----> There are similarities, but there are substantial differences. They diverge somewhat from there.

They both have swept wings that come out of the middle of the fuselage.
----> Yes, but the sweep and dihedral were slightly different. The main airfoils are definitely different. The canard is a different foil.

They both have the same type of winglets and rudders.
----> Meaning that Maher employed Rutan's idea of winglets equipped with rudders. Yes, I agree.

The ratios of wing to canard to fuselage lengths are similar.
----> I'll have to take your word for it. But it seems to me that while the main wings look similar in size, the Velocity canards look huge compared to Cozy canards. But that's based on casual looks without the benefit of a measuring tape.

But what really gets me is how the wing and canard spars are constructed and the way the main spar is attached to the firewall and gets much of its torsional strength from the strakes.
----> The center section spars, while performing the same function, are built entirely different. Again, I'm splitting the thinnest of hairs here. But just showing that Maher did his own thing and didn't follow RAF's construction steps. (Which reminds me. I saw a post on www.ez.org. One fellow was proclaiming that the strakes were not structural on a Long-EZ. I thought they were.)

In short, the list of similarities far out weighs the list of differences.
----> I presume you may be right. There are philosophical differences in the two, but both are still canard aircraft.
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks
I'm just splitting hairs with you for sake of casual, friendly conversation.
Me too.

I'm no expert on the subject.
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  #8  
Old 09-15-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks
I'm agreeing with you that they are kissing cousins. I'm just splitting hairs with you for sake of casual, friendly conversation. The Cozy IV truly eminated from the Burt Rutan design. Nat started with the Long-EZ plans and modified them to build the Cozy series. Put the Cozy plans side by side with the Long EZ plans and you can see they are mostly identical chapter by chapter, step by step, word for word.

I don't think Maher started with Long EZ plans. The Velocity may have eminated from RAF's concept of a moldless constructed canard aircraft. But I bet he started from a clean sheet of paper.
I'll have to diasgree with you here, since the factory clearly states that it was based on the long-ez (http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airabout.html), "1985 - In Sebastian, Florida, the prototype Velocity debuts, as the first four-seat, composite airplane kit based on the Long-EZ.

The prototype Velocity first flew in July 1985, as the first four-seat, composite airplane kit, based on the Long-EZ.".

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  #9  
Old 09-15-2006, 11:30 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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Echo, echo, echo.....
Did you read post #4?
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2006, 12:35 PM
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Since we’re completely off topic anyway. Why stop now.

From the Velocity website...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity Website
1985 - In Sebastian, Florida, the prototype Velocity debuts, as the first four-seat, composite airplane kit based on the Long-EZ.
I always thought that Nat flew the Cozy before the Velocity ever flew. Or was that considered a 3 seat?
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2006, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks
[i]... I seem to recall that Maher used the construction processes (canard, moldless layups) based off what Rutan pioneered. ... Sexy.
And then there's that part. I read in an Air&Space article a few months back that the attempted prototype build for the OV-10, done in the 60's by a couple of active-duty Marines used --> composite construction.
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  #12  
Old 09-15-2006, 02:28 PM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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I've got a call into Scott Swing. Maybe he can give me the full scoop.

N44CZ was the first plans-conforming Cozy IV. The database shows the aircraft year to be 1988, registered in 1991. So, Velocity was the first four seater.
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2006, 03:23 PM
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Also the Velo website says first four place KIT. The Co-Z is plans.

Just more splitting hairs amoung friends......

All the best,

Chris
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2006, 07:55 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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are the Velocitys' rear seatbelts attached to the firewall ? wasnt the firewall ripped from the plane in this crash (taken with the heavy engine) ? What happens to the rear occupants ?

just wonderin'

S
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ View Post
are the Velocitys' rear seatbelts attached to the firewall ? wasnt the firewall ripped from the plane in this crash (taken with the heavy engine) ? What happens to the rear occupants ?

just wonderin'

S
My rear seatbelts are attached to the angled bulkhead that is attached to the front of the main spar. As long as the main spar stays with the fuselage so will the rear passengers.
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