ARE YOU BUILDING..ON or OFF

[Steve parkins]

just wondering who is building what and what chapter, but the poll is for the switch................are you ON or OFF

[adouglas]

I voted OFF because while I *am* building, I'm not building my own airplane, and it's not a canard anyway...I'm just a serf, building a giant tin toy.

"Yes, Master, what is thy bidding?"

One thing I'm wondering is, with oil skyrocketing, is anyone having second thoughts about building? Last week Goldman Sachs put out a worst-case forecast of $100+/barrel oil. (I reallly, REALLY don't think that will happen, but I DO think we'll see $3+ mogas by fall, which means avgas somewhere between $4 and $5/gallon.)

[John Slade]

with oil skyrocketing, is anyone having second thoughts about building?

The higher the price of oil the more you save by having you're own plane. Flying a Cozy (in terms of mpg) is cheaper (and incidentally much faster) than driving a Tahoe by a large margin. Higher oil prices mean higher cost commercial flights. I would expect increased oil prices to drive people toward homebuilts in droves.

[Dust]

I love these polls - especially when they are months old and have no further meaning and they are brought back alive - fun stuff

[levansic]

I voted "Off" too, but I'm closer than I've ever been to building. I've got my plans and I'm in the middle of upgrading my shop. My wife is more on board than ever. I've shed many of my other time commitments to make building possible.

Unfortunately, my daughter's health problems have necessitated a chain reaction of events that have put a serious crimp on our available money situation for the extended foreseeable future. Ironically, it was her health problems that caused me to start looking into building a plane in the first place, to make extended family visits more bearable and commonplace.

I had plans on kicking into high gear with completion of the plane in less than two years from start. Now it looks like I'll be taking the long road and competing with Mr. Parkins for the low-dollar resourcefulness crown to get to the same place, eventually.

I hate to be a bummer, as there are a few people here dealing with much greater hardships and persevering. I can look on the bright side that I'm young (relatively) and that I will start the build someday when my situation improves enough. Taking time to do things right can benefit with lower costs in the end, as avionics will become more capable and cheaper, by the time I need to install them. Unfortunately, the price of fiberglass has doubled over the last 12 years, and it may continue upwards riding the cost of oil, but I plan on buying most, if not all of the glass upfront. Perhaps by the time I need to commit to an engine, Mr. Slade's turbo rotary may be well proven with over 1000 hours on the Hobbs. I hope to be at that point a lot sooner than that.

-- Len

[Clutch Cargo]

Can you define "ON" and "OFF" ?

Y'know, actually getting dirty and cutting things and using epoxy.....

Or is gathering parts, tools, moving stuff around in the garage, building places to hang templates negotiating with foam mfgrs n' stuff like that considered "building" ?

[Remi Khu]

I voted "ON" because I'm working on chapter 5. A little slower than anticipated but it's progress nonetheless.

[Steve parkins]

Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo

Can you define "ON" and "OFF" ?

Y'know, actually getting dirty and cutting things and using epoxy.....

Or is gathering parts, tools, moving stuff around in the garage, building places to hang templates negotiating with foam mfgrs n' stuff like that considered "building" ?

hell yes thats building

[Steve parkins]

Originally Posted by Remi Khu

I voted "ON" because I'm working on chapter 5. A little slower than anticipated but it's progress nonetheless.

5.........5 you just started......WOW you going to beet me!
slow down some....lol

[Andrew Anunson]

Heel Yeah.... but building the building to build in. Today put up some sheet rock and waiting for the vinyl siding to arrive. That has to be building if its a building for the plane.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by John Slade

The higher the price of oil the more you save by having you're own plane. Flying a Cozy (in terms of mpg) is cheaper (and incidentally much faster) than driving a Tahoe by a large margin. Higher oil prices mean higher cost commercial flights. I would expect increased oil prices to drive people toward homebuilts in droves.

That statement is only true if a) you *have* to fly someplace and/or b) if you drive a vehicle that gets crappy gas mileage. Neither of those conditions applies to me, and I suspect that when you get right down to it they don't apply to most people.

Personally I view an airplane as a recreational vehicle, not basic transportation. I don't actually need to travel long distances. Even if I did, the occasional airline flight is still cheaper than the ongoing cost of owning an airplane. Unless you fly on airlines a *lot* it doesn't make economic sense to own an airplane solely for the purpose of replacing airline travel.

Furthermore, IMHO few of the fools...er, individuals...who have bought Tahoes and their ilk actually *need* vehicles that large. I live in the NYC burbs, and the vast majority (well over 90%) of the huge SUVs I see have one occupant and are not used for business (those folks do need big vehicles for their livelihood, and I feel sorry for them). I drive a car that's remarkably large inside (bigger than quite a few SUVs, actually, though I could probably park it inside a Tahoe) and gets 30 mpg.

Since I don't need to travel and since my car gets better fuel economy than a Cozy, it doesn't matter how expensive oil gets. It's still cheaper for someone like me not to own an airplane.

I'm still hopeful that I can afford it long term, of course.

Given this, I'd tend to think that a lot of people would either get out of aviation entirely or rethink entering it in the first place.

If you assume that you *have* to fly and can't drive less expensively, then sure, it could make more sense than the alternative. But I think that the number of people who actually do have that legitimate need are in the minority.

[Remi Khu]

Originally Posted by Steve parkins

5.........5 you just started......WOW you going to beet me!
slow down some....lol

Yeah Steve, Chapter 5. I think it's going slow, realizing that completing the airframe is only 10-20% of the project. The finishing, engine, and instrumentation will be the bulk of the work. At least that's what I gathered from watching and listening.


BTW Steve, how about making some parts for me: the main gear tab tube and bushing (MKMG) assemblies, the canard lift tab, and the fuselage step.

What say ye?? PM me for the pricing unless you want to open discuss.

[JonC]

Off... sadly.

I've decided for the moment that my money is probably better spent on finishing my schooling.... to be an aerospace engineer, ironically, so in a way I'm working in the right direction.

Oh well, for the moment I have the restoration of a 1970 Merlin IIB to keep my building appetite in check. Every time I pull out more insulation and see more corrosion it makes the choice to build a composite aircraft more and more easy.

[levansic]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Since I don't need to travel and since my car gets better fuel economy than a Cozy, it doesn't matter how expensive oil gets. It's still cheaper for someone like me not to own an airplane.

If you don't need to travel then it doesn't make any difference what plane you build (or buy). I'm building for traveling efficiency.

I have two cars that my family can fit into. One of them gets 30 mpg, but has little cargo space, and the other gets 18 mpg, but can fit everything we need for a long trip plus our dogs. Now I know that I can't fit my dogs and everything in a Cozy, and it will probably average about 18 mpg, so why do I want to bother?

Time! It takes between five and seven hours to drive to the grandparents, while both sets are about an hour and a half away by air at Cozy speeds. To me, that's 3-1/2 to 5-1/2 hours each way that I am not cramped in to get 12 mpg better. Even with the awful price of gas right now, we still opt for the less efficient car for long trips, because it is comfortable for the amount of time that you are held captive. The Cozy will be more efficient for us because it gives us more time to do something other than travel to destinations.

While my value of time spent with the extended family can vary like the stock market, it is almost always higher than the cost of gas to get there.

-- Len

[Dust]

Originally Posted by JonC

Every time I pull out more insulation and see more corrosion it makes the choice to build a composite aircraft more and more easy.

what else can be said - heh heh heh