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Old 08-09-2006, 09:50 PM
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bferrell bferrell is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 174
Default Short Field Procedures

We're getting close to flying our Velocity, but I haven't done my transition training at the factory yet, and I was watching Bruce's nice Canard video here the other day. I noticed several folks at Rough River appeared to be getting their nosewheels off early, in what appeared to be a classic short-field take-off procedure, but I wondered if this was really the same in a canard. I wondered if the reduced nosewheel drag was really less than the drag of the canard at that angle of attack. I supposed that it probably was, but was curious what the math or conventional wisdom showed.

Brett Ferrell
Cincinnati, OH
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Old 08-10-2006, 08:54 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Carrollton, VA
Posts: 1,376

Several fliers I know use a procedure of stabbing the stick forward to compress the nose spring. As the spring rebounds, they pull back hard on the stick...and the nose pops into the air. This gets the canard at a higher incidence angle and gets it flying quicker into the takeoff roll. It allow the pilots to lift the nose at a SLIGHTLY lower airspeed than if you did nothing but wait for the normal rotation speed.

However, that nose yanking procedure works only in a narrow speed band anyway. Too low an airspeed and it does nothing. Too high an airspeed and you risk of popping a wheelie and getting a prop strike.

Except for this "proc," I know of no other "short field" technique other than rolling down the runway and waiting for the normal Vr speed (rotation speed).
Wayne Hicks, Cozy Plans #678
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:24 AM
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Waiter Waiter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northwestern Ohio
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I've used the procedure outlined by Wayne, particularly on soft-fields. The idea is to get the draggy nose wheel out of the weeds as soon as possible.

However, the procedure you described, generally speaking, is a normal procedure;

(Rotate speed = 45 to 50 kts)

I normally hold the stick back, when accelerating. When the canard starts flying (rotate speed), I ease back-pressure on the stick and hold the nose off at the takeoff attitude. The required back-pressure will get lighter and lighter as the plane accelerates (assuming its trimmed for straight and level flight)

The plane continues to accelerate, when the plane reaches its takeoff speed, it will lift off and start climbing.

The plane could be made to climb out sooner (slower speed) simply by increasing the nose angle. HOWEVER - You want to be particularly careful about getting the nose to high, to soon. There are members of this forum who will testify from their personal experience on what happens to the prop when you do this.

The resulting rule of thumb: " NEVER get the canard above the horizon when in close proximity to the ground, i.e. takeoff or landing " The results will be a prop strike.

I've never tried it, but doubt that the plane would rotate or take off if there was no back pressure applied. (of course this would depend greatly on the deck angle of the aircraft as its careening down the runway at 120 kts.)

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Old 08-10-2006, 11:53 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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Location: Carrollton, VA
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I've never tried it, but doubt that the plane would rotate or take off if there was no back pressure applied.

----> I agree. Marc Z has an Oshkosh chart showing how canard lift changes with elevator displacement. We all know the canard flies just fine at 180 MPH with the elevators in trail and even reflexed! But I think 180 MPH is a little inappropriate for rotation speed....

----> My takeoff technique is nearly the same as yours, except I leave the elevators alone until I've got some speed going. (I don't believe in the drag thing. Iit's just my technique.) Then about 5-10 MPH before rotation speed, I slowly pull the stick back until I feel the canard developing lift. (It's pronounced, you can definitely feel when it's going to lift.) I stop the aft stick and hold it there. As the plane accelerates and the nose rises, I decrease back pressure and let the stick move forward.

----> On this particular Cozy III, it doesn't like "canard on the horizon". It prefers canard "halfway to horizon. Canard-on-horizon is too much for his particular Cozy III. The plane lifts off fine, but wants to settle back onto the runway with the mains. Then it will lift off again and fly away. With canard-halfway-to-horizon, the nosewheel leaves the runway and the plane accelerates on the mains for a while before lifting off and flying away without resettling.

----> As for the nose yanking technique, Nat did it when I took my demo ride with him.
Wayne Hicks, Cozy Plans #678
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:05 PM
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tnt tnt is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 1,202

I know this is supposed to be about short fields (in canards) but here's a little warning on soft-fields in any plane. I've done 2 that weren't just for practice and almost lost it on one of them.

You know that little part about "don't fly out of ground effect until you get good flying speed" ? Imagine a scenario where the soft field ends with an abrupt 10-15 foot droppoff and to a lake. You just get off and are still working with ground-effect and you pass over the droppoff at the end. You've just flown out of ground effect and will settle. Only then and with the Tomahawk's stall-horn blaring did I realize my boo-boo. As I settled toward Navajo Reservoir it was "Oh Sh! Oh Sh! Oh Sh!" But I managed my AOA carefully and fortunately re-established ground-effect just above the water. My legs shook for 1/2 hour after that.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:46 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks
[snip] I leave the elevators alone until I've got some speed going. (I don't believe in the drag thing. Iit's just my technique.)
I was taught by an agricultural pilot who lived or died by his short takeoffs and landings, and he taught me to minimise the drag during the takeoff roll, UNLESS I was in long wet grass where I saw him once use full flap!! I questioned this, and he explained that he needed all the lift he could get EARLY in the takeoff run ***(1). That sounded vaguely logical to me, but I dont know if I would be keen to try it. Yes, this was fully-loaded. A/C was a PA32-260. But he has 20k hours now and has retired with his super cub, and statisically he should have been killed four times, so his words remain.

Anyway, I love landing on wet grass.. its a long skiiiiiii woohooooo!! slightly sideways preferred ! Concrete is nasty grippy bindy stuff that tramlines something horrible. ugh.

***(1) This was a long time ago and I was a mere student pilot. It is abundantly likely that what I heard is not what he said. This is talk on the cereal box - not real. Do it at your peril.

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