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  #46  
Old 05-02-2007, 02:48 PM
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.......point being ACS does not sell 209.
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  #47  
Old 05-02-2007, 02:52 PM
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I have a call into the person that took Renee's position now and am waiting for a response.
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  #48  
Old 05-02-2007, 03:17 PM
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The other part of that is the West System metering pumps don't work for 209 (unless you want to bypass the functionality and weigh the hardener yourself in which case why have the pump.)
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  #49  
Old 05-02-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
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.......point being ACS does not sell 209.
The fact that ACS doesn't sell the 209 says nothing about whether the stuff they DO sell IS approved. The 205/206 are NOT approved, and should NOT be used for structural layups. The 209 IS approved, and if you insist on using WEST SYSTEMS epoxy for your aircraft (which is fine), then the 209 is what you should use, wherever you have to buy it from.

Whatever they may ship in the practice kit is meaningless, but feel free to take up the issue with ACS if you feel like banging your head against the wall. READ THE CP'S / CSA newsletters, and, for that matter, the COZY newsletters. ALL of them. KNOW what you need to know to be safe.

www.cstsales.com here in Tehachapi has the 209, as, I'm sure, do a zillion other places that sell West for boats.

And they sell pumps that are appropriate for the hardener that they sell.
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  #50  
Old 05-02-2007, 03:42 PM
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Marc, I'm not taking issue with you as to whether or not 206 is approved or not. I am merely venting my frustration with ACS over why they would send out 206 w/105 in the Practice Kit if it is not an approved epoxy system (and yes, I will take this up with ACS.) I know that the West System is not the cheapest alternative but in the interest of staying with (what I assumed was) the pre-qualified resin system (based on the fact it was in the practice kit) as it was presented in the training, I was willing to spend the extra to stay within the guidelines.

So, my reward for trying to stick with the 'premium grade' stuff is I lose another high yield weekend of building . I didn't realize that the hardest part was just getting the project started.

The upside of this is the fact that I'm not stuffing my trash can with chuncks of glassed foam. That as a result of the forum.
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  #51  
Old 05-02-2007, 03:43 PM
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Well, AS&S is the owner of the plans and should therefor, in my opinion, should only supply approved materials.
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  #52  
Old 05-02-2007, 03:53 PM
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yeah......well I'll be discussing that with them shortly. In the meantime, I just spoke with Wicks and should have enough 335 here for my work this weekend.

All those in favor........
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  #53  
Old 05-03-2007, 12:38 PM
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Just talked to AS&S - they thought that the 206 was OK, they just switched the practice kit to the west system.

They are gonna change the kit to the 209 hardener

I will try to remember to follow up
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  #54  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:14 PM
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Yeah....I'm a bit disapointed about getting faked-out like that.
I checked my tracking information from Wicks and my 335 is on schedule for delivery for tomorrow, so my weekend is salvaged.
I was kicking back last night, watching my DVD on Vacuum Bagging techniques and cutting out templates. It kind of got me thinking:
The open source templates are available in both PDF & DWF format. I supose I could work with the DWF files and rework the template drawings such that the airfoils are already diaplaying as 1 piece drawings instead of trying to line them up accurately on the floor of my basement.
Given that......I would supose the next step would be to get something like that over to the guy here in town that can cut them out of a sheet of aluminum via laser.
My understanding is that if you can feed him a CAD file, he can do it.

Just thinking out loud here but that sure would save a sh!tload of time while adding a ton of precision.

I sure was glad the forum brought the epoxy issue to the forefront like they did.
The timing was excellent.

T Mann
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  #55  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
Given that......I would suppose the next step would be to get something like that over to the guy here in town that can cut them out of a sheet of aluminum via laser.
My understanding is that if you can feed him a CAD file, he can do it. T Mann
That would be a great addition to the Long world

things to keep in mind - all flying examples, that i knows of, have used them

the last two feet or so of the wing gets formed beautifully with the hot wire, then totally mucked up with the 18 or so layers added to attach the vert stab for the last 20 or so inches.

Marc - great catch on the Hardener
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dust

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  #56  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:37 PM
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.... then totally mucked up with the 18 or so layers added to attach the vert stab for the last 20 or so inches.
Exactly! I am pondering (pondering mind you) the idea of building the spar cap into the vert stab to not only stengthen that join but also to lower it below the wing skin profile. I'm guessing that it would be a major PIA to do that. I'm also guessing that if you could build the joined portion of the spar cap prior to the wing and get the alinment worked out you could leave the inboard wing skin off of the winglet until after the winglet is attached to that angled spar cap But obviously those alignments and angles would have to be perfect!)
That looks similar to what eRacer did with his blended vert stab.....right?
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
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That looks similar to what eRacer did with his blended vert stab.....right?
Yes, but you still gonna have the extra layups that i mentioned, the spar cap continuation is not enough, i don't think.

alignments are not a problem, in order to do it "perfect", you would have to dish out the area where the 18 or so layers go
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

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  #58  
Old 05-06-2007, 10:28 PM
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Well .... as promised, Wicks came through for me. I got my MGS 335 Friday which put me in a position to actually get serious about Chapter 4. The down side was the weather was pretty much on the cool side.
I cut my templates for chapter 4 (inst panel, F22 & 28) so I can router trim those parts. I put together my 65 inch hotwire tool, got my epoxy pump calibrated, wired my epoxy pump cabinet for heat and mounted the pump on a drawer slide so I can slide it out for refills. I'm planning on wiring my cutting table/Fiberglass cabinet with a 4 outlet box so I can use that vs. an extension cord for the electric scissors and plug my epoxy pump heat into it as well. I could have used my heat tent this weekend so I'll assemble that during the week which will ensure that it will never be less than 90 degrees in my garage for the life of the project .
Once I got my pump calibrated and the pump box wired I started mixing micro-slurry. I figured I was running out of time so I opted to hardshell all foam surfaces in preparation for the first of the glass lay-ups. The glass is cut for the seats so all should be ready to go for my next plane day.
It seems that every time I set out to work on the plane I end up working on the tools and shop stuff instead. I was really hoping to have chapter 4 crossed off this weekend. I guess I'll get more efficient as time goes on.
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  #59  
Old 05-07-2007, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
The open source templates are available in both PDF & DWF format. I supose I could work with the DWF files and rework the template drawings such that the airfoils are already diaplaying as 1 piece drawings instead of trying to line them up accurately on the floor of my basement.
I have already done that, but I do not trust my cad files at this point. I have started to generate full CAD files for the Open-EZ files with the intent of creating some more usable Open-EZ drawings.

If you finish wing template drawings, please let me know so I can use them for reference (if thats ok with you). Otherwise stay tuned and I will have some complete templates that will not require match lines.
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  #60  
Old 05-11-2007, 10:03 PM
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I'll be glad to print and validate your drawings against my originals.

I did my first vacuum bag layups this evening. Lots of good info here on the forum (Thanks B-Ski & Mars.) The only problem I'm aware of is the snap seal. I'll take a little more time to get a flatter seam so it seals better. I have a slight leak and can hear my pump cyle a couple times per minute but it does reach the proper level of vacuum so it shouldn't be a problem.
Anxious to see how they look in the AM!
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