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View Poll Results: Which engine are you using, installing or planning on?
Continental 2 1.64%
Deltahawk 7 5.74%
Jet 2 1.64%
Lycoming 31 25.41%
Rotary 48 39.34%
Subaru 8 6.56%
Other Diesel 5 4.10%
Undecided 16 13.11%
Other Automotive 1 0.82%
LS1 V8... 405 HP 1 0.82%
Jabiru 5100 1 0.82%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
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The 360 Conti is a very good engine, smooth running, with 6 small pistons vs 4 big ones of the 360 Lycomings. many people have asked this question and some of the answers I have heard are:

60 to 70 lbs. heavier for same HP
Can't be lightened much by the use of lighter after market parts ( light weight starter, honda alternator, etc. )
Longer engine, Cg of engine is futher back.
needs custom mount
needs custom exhaust
needs custom engine cowling
More expensive to buy and maintain
Less avalible
you can buy a Lycoming 0-540 for the same price
weighs the same as a Lycoming 540 which has 40 to 90 HP more
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This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
  #122  
Old 03-23-2006, 02:58 PM
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gordodavis gordodavis is offline
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Hey, I appreciate the feedback, that's good information to know concerning the Continental Engines.
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Cozy MK IV Plans 1417
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  #123  
Old 03-23-2006, 04:38 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Regarding the Franklin 6, I've heard that Nat thought it was wimpy, but that's the ONLY comment on it I've ever heard until recently. A guy in my hangar has had a Franklin 6 on his Velocity for years and loves it. He has a friend up north somewhere with the same engine, and the same experience. An advantage of the Franklin over the Lycoming is that you can fit an IVO in-flight adjustable prop for around $2000.

On another note, I heard recently that Lycoming is planning to introduce a new engine model shortly. Maybe at Sun & Fun. Rumor has it that its a 210 HP and will be cheaper than the current 200 (which still aint cheap). I think the guys at Glassair are planning to offer it as an option on their quick build kits.

Me? I just love the smooth running of the rotary.
  #124  
Old 03-24-2006, 12:28 AM
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JonC JonC is offline
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Lycoming? Cheap? Those two words do not go together... I'll believe it when I see it.
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  #125  
Old 03-24-2006, 11:13 AM
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Price - my conti was 7000 including light weight starter, alternator, turbo 2000TT, fuel pump and injection, 600 SMOH and it was a good one AND a one year guarantee from the surplus yard.

Cooling 4 versus 6 - mmmm - six sets of cooling fins may work better than 4 sets of cooling fins and 210 hp is gonna create the same heat wether you make it through 1,2,3,4,6 cylinders.

bed mount - PIA

if you are gonna turbo an aircraft engine, contis are plentiful and come with oil scavenge pump and low compression pistons and oversized oil cooler
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
  #126  
Old 03-24-2006, 11:26 AM
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David Clifford David Clifford is offline
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Its probably junk by now. You have had it for over two years now sitting in cold/hot/dry/humid hangers and garage's, and have done nothing to preserve it other than covering the ports. At the very least you should have fogged the engine with fogging oil turning the crank over while doing so to give the innards a nice protective coat of oil. I would be surprised if Wentworth would warranty an engine that was stored in such a careless manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
Price - my conti was 7000 including light weight starter, alternator, turbo 2000TT, fuel pump and injection, 600 SMOH and it was a good one AND a one year guarantee from the surplus yard.

Cooling 4 versus 6 - mmmm - six sets of cooling fins may work better than 4 sets of cooling fins and 210 hp is gonna create the same heat wether you make it through 1,2,3,4,6 cylinders.

bed mount - PIA

if you are gonna turbo an aircraft engine, contis are plentiful and come with oil scavenge pump and low compression pistons and oversized oil cooler
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  #127  
Old 03-24-2006, 11:35 AM
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its been fogged and the cylendars are chromed
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
  #128  
Old 06-03-2006, 08:51 PM
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MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
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It's strange... now that I have signed up for the airsoob, flysoob, and... and... well, the other mail list (can't remember what it's called at the moment), the primary dicussion has centered around the fact that 2 soob conversion pioneers have now dumped the soob in favor of Lyco's. Something about if you want to fly, get an aircraft engine. If you want to experiment and just cruise around the local pattern, get an auto conversion.

This is starting to tick me off...
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  #129  
Old 06-03-2006, 11:00 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleTurtle
It's strange... now that I have signed up for the airsoob, flysoob, and... and... well, the other mail list (can't remember what it's called at the moment), the primary dicussion has centered around the fact that 2 soob conversion pioneers have now dumped the soob in favor of Lyco's. Something about if you want to fly, get an aircraft engine. If you want to experiment and just cruise around the local pattern, get an auto conversion.

This is starting to tick me off...
Al Wick is installing a 2nd Sube. How is Keith Spruer making out with his EG33?
  #130  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:41 AM
Nathan Gifford Nathan Gifford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleTurtle
...the primary dicussion has centered around the fact that 2 soob conversion pioneers have now dumped the soob in favor of Lyco's...
What! The Eggs have abandoned their Subie business in favor of Lycomings?? Like RV6ejguy says you still have Al Wick and Keith Spruer out there.

Isn't Keith up around 250 hours on his EG33? Must be some mighty boring flying around the pattern...The only reason Al is not flying is he is putting in a sparkly new H6. So I guess he is just tinkering...
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Last edited by Nathan Gifford : 06-04-2006 at 03:08 PM.
  #131  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:57 AM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Marb- With all the soob talk-and I am kinda lookin at the soob.... I was wonderin if you could fill us in on your choice of the LS1 as your choice for power?
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  #132  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:09 AM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Quote:
if you want to fly, get an aircraft engine. If you want to experiment and just cruise around the local pattern, get an auto conversion.
Hey, there's some truth in that. Greg Richer said something about 2 hours fiddling for every hour flying on his rotary powered cozy. I have 24 flights of less than 0.4 duration in my first 60 hours. The good news is that neither of us had any glider time. Whenever anything wasnt right I simply flew home and landed. But - there were far too many times that something wasnt right. These installations are all unique in they're own way, and at the same time they're much more complex than aircraft engine installations. The base of rotary flying knowledge is getting deeper, and the time to iron out the kinks is getting less, but the fact remains - complexity and uniqueness breed "issues" .

In general, auto conversion takes the term "experimental" to a whole new level. If you want to just fly a plane, buy a 172. If you want to build something, experiment and have a truely satisfying experience, build a Cozy.
Same applies to engines, only more so. In many ways, building a Cozy from plans is NOT an experiment. Follow the plans and she'll fly like all the others. Installing a non-standard engine IS an experiment. You're inventing new stuff at every turn, and many of those turns can be "dead ends" in more ways than one, as our good friend Paul Conner sadly proved. The more you can copy from whats working for others the better, but an exact copy is never possible.

At the end of the day it's very satisfying to know that you have an almost indestructible engine with more power, redundancy on every system and a total replacement cost of around $6k. Its been a long haul for me, but I'm finally getting to the point where I feel that my rotary is less likely to bite me than the Lycoming I had in my Piper PA160.
  #133  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:27 AM
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MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
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Quote:
I was wonderin if you could fill us in on your choice of the LS1 as your choice for power?
The LS1 would be too heavy for the Cozy (unless maybe I stretch it 12"?), but about right for the Velocity XL-5. I don't know who this person is, but its a good primer on the basics...

http://www.predatoraviation.com/customplanes.pdf
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  #134  
Old 06-04-2006, 02:29 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
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John sums it all up very well. An auto engine is not for everyone and if you are not a patient person, don't even start. The Lyco will get you flying farther sooner in almost every case. The advice to not reinvent the wheel here when it comes to the engine installation and systems is important. Learn from those who have gone before. It will save you a lot of time and agony.

I think in another year or two, we'll have more solid info available for systems and installations for Subes and Wankels. I'm glad that the Garrett turbo is holding up for John so far and look forward to more reports once he gets settled in.
  #135  
Old 06-04-2006, 03:04 PM
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The thing that is dissapointing to me... and it may just be a matter of perception... is that no one seems to be LEAVING the development phase.

I knew that going with an automotive conversion would require much more development than dropping in a Lyco. I actually look forward to the challenge. But if I can never get past the point of pieces failing... redesign, and try try again, then I'm not certain I want to head down that path.

After lurking on the auto-conversion mailing lists for a while, and seeing people who are most certainly in the know (like Rusty on the Fly-rotary list, or these other two on the fly-soob list) switch to a Lyco, it certainly makes me rethink my convictions on the subject.

There are a couple of small companies that have an auto conversion package, but or the price of a Mistral rotary or a Egg Soob, I might as well buy a more proven Powersport 360... wait! Who said that?
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