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  #1  
Old 01-18-2006, 12:05 AM
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Default MT props

one person i talked to, has an electric mt prop and has no problems

three or four had mt props and they were a maintenance money pit. one of them is from your neck of the woods - Tony rothwell - i think his words were "10 dollars an hour flight time in maintenance costs"

others have had similar results that i have chatted with.
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:20 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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The mt is a great prop. very well made. but it can get even more expensive then the $10,000 price tag. I know of several people that have run the prop with very little maintenance cost, and that is the way it should. But, I also know of a few who where not so lucky. most of the problems are not the fault of the prop but of the situations people have put the prop through. one on a stunt biplane, stop to short, tail came up, prop hit the ground, $10,000 prop cost $9500 to repair. one on an aero canard was broken 4 times first time was by the builder when aircraft went over backwards when passenger jumped out and plane bounced. next time was when builder ran it off the runway into a swamp. the next time was by the new owner, that rebuilt the plane, when in mexico the airport cleaning crew backed a pickup into the prop. the next time a different passenger jumped out with the nose gear in the nose low position and the spring of the gear caused the plane to go over backwards again. Each time the props need to be repaired because of blade being broken the manufactuer had to replace ALL the blades, beadings, collars, bolts, nuts, clips, seals, gaskets and even the hubs. whats left? you ask, well thats the point the manufactuer does not want to take the liability and risk the old stressed parts so they just replace them at your expense. You by the first prop at say $10,000 and they will repair it for $9500 , plus $500 for shipping, each time you send it in. When you send it in here in the US, it will go to dealer and they will send it to Germany. 3 to 4 months later you will get it back looking like new. this comes under the catagory of sh@# happens and should not have happened, but Sh@# happens and each time it is not going to cost the Germans anything. oh, and remember you don't have to save the shipping crate because they will charge you for a new one anyway. the shipping cost to send it to them and crate charge was more than a good three blade fixed pitch prop.
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Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:37 AM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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$10k, then $10 to repair.

Cheaper to throw away the engine and get one that'll run an IVO
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2006, 02:55 AM
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StRaNgEdAyS StRaNgEdAyS is offline
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That's a pretty gloomy outlook.
The people I've spoken to who use the MT have had good things to say, but then they've not had to have it rebuilt either. I guess we are fortunate to have an MT service center ehere in Oz that can do the work in house without having to send it away to Germany but even so, it sounds like a damaged blade = 4 new blades and hub overhaul. That can't be good for the pocket.
As much as I'm not comfortable with the IVO, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and work towards that then. I really did want to go hydraulic rather than electric but since the IVO doesn't do Hydraulic I guess eletric it will be. (No I did not want to get a beta range, I reckon reversing the prop on a short taildragger is just begging for a prop strike. )
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2006, 03:37 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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There are many many MT props out there and they are working great, the akro guys love them. the local repair stations do a great job disassembling, Inspection, replacing parts, balanceing, but if you damage a blade beyond repair the prop is going to Germany. I have flown behind several MT props and the all have been very smooth running. the smoothest so far is the MT on the aero canard with a Lyc. IO 360C1E6. In cruse you keep checking to see if it is still running. very quiet and smooth, about 175 Kts at 2550 rpm. although at 2700 you only get about 2 Kts more. 2550rpm seems to to be the best rpm. with the Catto three blade it will go to 185 Kts at 2800 rpm. these speeds are GPS on a triangle course. Take off with the MT is about 1100 ft and with the Catto it is 1700 ft. This heavier 4 place canard does't like to lift off untill 85 Kts.
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Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2006, 10:01 AM
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I believe the MT props were also standard equipment on the certified Speed Canards built in Germany.
...Chrissi
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2006, 11:57 AM
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welllll, the three or four really bad reports of high maintenance on the mt (none of them were prop strikes) and i just do not like wood outside. I know, I know, i build furniture out of wood for my other hobby, but indoor furniture.

the only main entrance door i made was a real PIA, laminated 3/4 inch oak core, every rail and stile was covered with 1/4 inch hand sawn oak veneer inside and out. the raised panels were quarter sawn oak to resist warping and for the flake grain and each panel had an inside panel, 1/4 inch foam insulation and an out side panel.

Wood and the outdoors is a PIA

So the bad reports and the good reports and no wood on the aero composites sold me.
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

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  #8  
Old 01-18-2006, 12:18 PM
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I have an MT pushing my O-320, I LOVE IT. I need to check the logs, but I think it has well over 1000 hours on it. My aircraft routinely participates in acrobatics, ACM, and other sorted Yank and Bank. 5g maneuvers are the normal, and often how I pay for my fuel (I bet I can put the GIB to sleep)

NOTE: My aircraft is placarded with the following restrictions;

"INTENTIONAL STRAIGHT AND LEVEL FLIGHT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED IN THIS AIRCRAFT"

MT cuts the blades for your specific application. In my case, I presented them with known airframe and power parameters of my LongEZ. Based on these parameters we (MT and I) decided that at 2300 rpm, the aircraft should cruise at 170kts (sea level) with the Lycoming O-320 putting out 160 hp.

They missed by 3 kts. With their prop at 2300 rpm, I cruise at 167 kts.

I did have some initial problems with their pitch motor, They were very accommodating and prom ply sent me a new motor, then when they came out with the redesigned motor, they sent me one of those. No problems yet with the new style motor

Waiter
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2006, 12:44 PM
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Yes Waiter - you are the only true "happy MT prop camper" i have had a chance to meet
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dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:07 PM
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There are several happy Velocity drivers with MTs, but there are plenty that are very unhappy as well. There are several with leaking seals even after the "fix", and many are unhappy with the RPM restrictions on non-counterbalanced engines, some just unhappy with it's relative ease of damage. All in all it convinced me to go with a Catto and look at the new Aerocomposites when they get flying.

B
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:36 PM
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It seems that there are dozens of satisfied Eggenfellner/ MT owners. Maybe the electric versions are more reliable?
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:40 PM
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Yes - i think that is it - the electrics are OK
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

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  #13  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:34 PM
argoldman argoldman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bferrell
There are several happy Velocity drivers with MTs, but there are plenty that are very unhappy as well. There are several with leaking seals even after the "fix", and many are unhappy with the RPM restrictions on non-counterbalanced engines, some just unhappy with it's relative ease of damage. All in all it convinced me to go with a Catto and look at the new Aerocomposites when they get flying.

B
Any prop is subject to damage if it hits the ground with a running or non-running engine.

The aerocomposite looks like a beautiful prop. I spent some time at their booth at OSH drooling.

Other than it's being more pricy, it is hydraulic only which eliminates the rotary or other non-dynosaur devotees
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argoldman
Any prop is subject to damage if it hits the ground with a running or non-running engine.

yes, but the problem seems to be with the oil seals
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dust

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  #15  
Old 01-18-2006, 05:16 PM
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I have been considering MT propeller for our hopefully forthcoming plane (as we are still in chapter 3 and it may be too early to speculate about the prop).

Lynn, it is not that exceptional that prop is beyond repair for prop strike. It happens here all the time: if prop strike happens, it is required to be replaced, it loses airworthiness. If prop strike happens when engine is running, the engine too loses airworthiness and without inspection must not be flown again, in most cases will never be flown again. Usually it happens here so in the LSA equivalent plane category that someone does bounced landing, the weak nose gear fails and prop strikes ground. Result: broken prop and broken engine. Our flight club has had was it three prop strikes last summer and every single one of them resulted to engine and propeller replacement. In these the prop was cheap fortunately except the WT9 Dynamic that has a bit more expensive propeller but still nowhere as expensive as the higher power propellers like MT propeller.

Chrissi, Speedcanards used Hoffman propellers, I am . There was some talk in Marc Zeitlin's list about Hoffman propeller. The difference between the Speedcanard installation and the Hoffman prop failure case in Cozy is that in Cozy the exhaust pipes were close to the prop whereas in Speedcanard the exhaust pipes are further away from the prop. Our building supervisor has advised against putting composite prop close to exhaust pipes, he said that "It will fail if you do so" and he advises to place exhaust pipe outlet elsewhere than directly to the prop. Because he inspects every part we do (otherwise we would not get airworthiness, it is very serious business to build plane around here), we obviously must place the exhaust pipe away from the prop (hence do a Speedcanard style installation) or he will not approve the exhaust pipe installation (no matter what kind of propeller we put in).
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