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  #1  
Old 08-04-2006, 01:40 PM
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Default Carburetor Icing - determination

My buddy has the following method to determine Carb Icing

1. Go to site of crash
2. Have Pilot and passenger bodies removed
3. Have plane hauled to a local FBO
4. remove a spark plug
5. Insert Bore scope
6. View the piston head, if very, very black, it was probably caused by carb icing. The lack of air flow causes the engine to go extremely over rich and quit
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:39 PM
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Talked to my buddy the accident investigator - told him that i posted this, laughed his buttocks off, he wants a copy.

Current accident he is investigating is a plane that had 16 cylinders (on a 6 cylinder engine) replaced in the last few years, number 3 cylinder far more often than the others, remembering eracers clogged injector, i piped in - clogged injector, he said YEP!

No one ever looked for the cause of the problem, just kept on a replacing cylinders. This time the failure was fatal.
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dust

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  #3  
Old 10-26-2006, 10:32 PM
eracer113 eracer113 is offline
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Mike
Thanks for remembering that bit about the injectors. That was definately the cause of the failure. After I installed a third 10 micron filter just before the fuel rails did the problem go away. I must say it was a very costly repair. TSIO cylinders are $1800.00+ per cyl plus Lycon work on the cyl. I still have a hard time understanding how so much crap after 10 years of flying still collects in the filters. I was very careful cleaning the tanks before first flight and still have some resedue collecting in the filters. Take all precausions on cleaning your tanks, it could save your life. Fortunately all the failures I have had were in pattern.

Jack
E Racer 113
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2006, 03:42 AM
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Don't you guys have carbie heat over there? Ice will only make your engine run rich if you let it.
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2006, 09:50 AM
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Yeah - we gots carb heat - just go to the accident data accumulation site in your country and you will find tons of carb icing problems.

One problem that i have seen is many people fly in the desert and are not really taught carb heat procedures. In Michigan, we put carb heat on all year in the pattern, in arizona - they chuckle at me when i do it. When those people fly to climates where there is moisture in the air, reduce power in the pattern with no carb heat, hello terra firma!

I see many more planes at the airports in the desert where the weather is "severe clear" almost every day than i see in Michigan where we have 75 sun days a year.

since the ice that causes the problem quickly goes away, the procedure i outlined is the only method of determining carb icing in an accident investigation.
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Last edited by Dust : 10-27-2006 at 10:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spodman View Post
carbie heat


Living in Australia, I totally get that. Before moving here I didn't know about the whole shortening thing that Aussies love to do.

Carbie, Towy, Footy....

I love this expat thing!
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  #7  
Old 10-27-2006, 02:46 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post
One problem that i have seen is many people fly in the desert and are not really taught carb heat procedures.
I dont get why folks wont follow the procedure. Perhaps they know better. My instructor all-but carried his school-marm wooden ruler, for students who touched the throttle before the carb heat. whack! owch! "sharpen up!"

S
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2006, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ View Post
I dont get why folks wont follow the procedure. Perhaps they know better. My instructor all-but carried his school-marm wooden ruler, for students who touched the throttle before the carb heat. whack! owch! "sharpen up!"

S
Because in high density altitude operations (due to heat), i.e. desert, you are already down on power and there is no chance of carb icing at those ambient temps, so why take the extra performance hit? It might make the difference in a few hundred feet of runway eaten up on a go-around when you might not even have that extra few hundred feet?

I don't have the POH for a C150,C172, Warrior, etc right in front of me, however IIRC it says "Carb Heat.... as required" not "Carb Heat.... on". So it is not the procedure at all to add carb heat, it is procedure to check if you need carb heat and then add it.

Also consider the fact that in hot climates you are already running richer when you go full rich than you would in cold climates, add in the carb heat and you are now running really rich... which fouls your plugs and further decreases your performance.... and if you are high/hot enough, it will kill the engine.

So yes, I guess you could say some of us know better as to when it is appropriate and when it is not.
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2006, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Because in high density altitude operations (due to heat), i.e. desert, you are already down on power and there is no chance of carb icing at those ambient temps, so why take the extra performance hit?
You think we don't get heat or desert here??? The manual on the dear old Warrior I fly in says to use the heat when required, I only routinely use it when I have reduced power and performance is not a problem. I know carbie icing (on'ya Drew) can occur at higher power settings, but if it isn't there the heat is off when I want power. And yes, I get the Aussie version: whack! owch! "fricken sharpen up!"
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:10 PM
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I am not an aggressive driver, but, last year, or was it earlier this year, i ran a stop sign, i think maybe a year or two ago a red light i did not notice until too late.

One of the things i just don't like is all the designed in failure modes in aviation.

you gotta remembers, kill ya.
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dust

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  #11  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
all the designed in failure modes in aviation
No problem. Just sit in the back. No failure modes there.... unless you count the peanuts.
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2006, 09:06 PM
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OK, i don't like to take direct shots at anyone, but, in this instance.

do you now wish you had an auto extend nose wheel?
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

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  #13  
Old 10-27-2006, 11:27 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonC View Post
[...]why take the extra performance hit? It might make the difference in a few hundred feet of runway eaten up on a go-around when you might not even have that extra few hundred feet?
What performance hit do you get with the carb heat on, at 15" boost, while on approach ? Why was the carb heat not turned off over the threshold, like it should have been ? CCUP ?

what am I not understanding ?

S
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2006, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
do you now wish you had an auto extend nose wheel?
No, I don't. In fact I was offered a Wilhelmson unit for free a few weeks ago. I politely declined. Those things are a PITA for normal operations. Turn the master on in the hangar, the nose gear goes down by itself. I'd rather be responsible for the operations of the plane. I would order a car with a manual choke if I could.

Let's design the perfect plane for our friend, Dust. I'll start it off....

It would have:
  • visibility and humidity sensors so you can't take off when it's IFR.
  • GPS tied into voice recognition so you cant enter class B airspace without hearing the words "cleared to enter".
  • Waas powered auto-pilot automated landing system
  • automatic steering nose wheel linked to programmed taxiway map
  • ABS brakes
  • auto retract on the prop so it gets smaller if it goes near the ground
  • bank limiter on the aileron linked to airspeed so you cant bank too much at low speed
any other neat ideas to help make it possible to fly an experimental aircraft with absolutely zero responsibility for making any decisions?
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2006, 12:50 AM
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I'll gladly take it all and more, how bout my car - it would be nice ifin it would drive me to the airport.
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dust

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