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  #1  
Old 08-25-2006, 08:08 PM
Ben Ben is offline
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Default Supercharger for rotaries?

Found the following supercharger, wondering if the rotary types have given this any thoughts? Would it work?

http://www.camdensuperchargers.com/
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2006, 09:35 PM
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I've given it some thought... You end up having to get a supercharger size larger than you typically would to keep the speed down on the screws, which also will help keep the heat down a bit

With a supercharger you will also need to add a muffler as an unmuffled rotary alone is enough to make you deaf, but add to it a blower and you end up with something that will make the people three counties over deaf.

You still need to intercool it, you need expensive belts and custom pulleys (8+ rib)

The only way you can control boost on them is to adjust a bypass which drops the pressure, which gets very touchy as unlike a turbo you arnt slowing the unit down, you are making a controlled leak to lower the pressure.

It is a lot of work, a lot of money and a lot of weight. I'd love to have a supercharged rotary, however I don't want to go through the engineering troubles of making one for an airplane... So I'll pass that torch to someone else.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2006, 10:49 PM
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The hope is that John's set up will work, time will tell. Eracer supercharged his lycoming and after some drive belt problems were solved - he seems very happy with it.
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
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Bruce Turrentine has some suggestions about how a rotary could be supercharged.
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2006, 03:07 PM
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I wouldn't use that particular supercharger... roots type. It uses something similar to interlocking twisted gears to force feed the air. If a belt breaks, air can't bypass the supercharger.

The centrifugal would be better. It has a turbocharger type turbine that if seized (broken belt), air can still be sucked through the blades.

For whatever reason, supercharging the RX8 Renesis engine seems to be a much more popular / viable solution for street cars than turbocharging.
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:29 PM
eracer113 eracer113 is offline
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I am very happy with the supercharger I have, Voetech centrifical. Like Mike said, I had some initial problems with belts breaking, listening to the sales professionals and went to a 10 goove belt from a 6 groove belt, problem solved, cost $1000.00 for a new drive pully. I have installed a wastegate in my intake with electric control to see if I can reduce the MP during cruise to get better fuel burn, have not had a chance to test it because of other modifications, which by the way are excellent,and no Mike, that new wing on that jet is plain ugly. The reason I went to a supercharger instead of a turbocharger was because of the heat generated and also an intercooler was needed, more weight and complexity. I could gain more HP with an intercooler on my supercharger but why, I have all the HP I need and less weight. When I get my Ac back together , hopefully in a few weeks, I will post the results of the intake wastegate.

Jack
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2006, 08:01 PM
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Jack,
I would be VERY interested in your testing results. Also,,could you delve a little deeper into the design of your intake wastegate, how it works and why?? Also, which model engine are you using? Thanks. Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer113
I am very happy with the supercharger I have, Voetech centrifical. Like Mike said, I had some initial problems with belts breaking, listening to the sales professionals and went to a 10 goove belt from a 6 groove belt, problem solved, cost $1000.00 for a new drive pully. I have installed a wastegate in my intake with electric control to see if I can reduce the MP during cruise to get better fuel burn, have not had a chance to test it because of other modifications, which by the way are excellent,and no Mike, that new wing on that jet is plain ugly. The reason I went to a supercharger instead of a turbocharger was because of the heat generated and also an intercooler was needed, more weight and complexity. I could gain more HP with an intercooler on my supercharger but why, I have all the HP I need and less weight. When I get my Ac back together , hopefully in a few weeks, I will post the results of the intake wastegate.

Jack
E Racer 113
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  #8  
Old 08-26-2006, 09:54 PM
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I'll post all the information and results on the wastegate as soon as the tests are complete. I am running a efi -supercharged 0540 lyc with tsio cylinders and lycon pistons with twin electronic ignition. Makes a very healthy combination. I will have the AC at RR weather permitting.

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  #9  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer113
and also an inter-cooler was needed, Jack
E Racer 113
Well, i think that an inter-cooler is needed if you produce much boost, weather that boost is produced by supercharger or a turbo-supercharger. just Plane Ideal Gas Law at work

For me - don't care about ugly - didn't it say 6% fuel savings, that looks pretty to me - nice to see creative thoughts a workin and with planes like that some serious money behind it
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2006, 06:26 PM
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Well all I know is the maximum increase of intake temp with a supercharger is 50o and a turbo is a lot higher that that. At 50 in Mp with a supercharger, a intercooler is not needed unless you fly at extreme altitudes. They are racing at Reno at 60 in MP without intercoolers, unless that has changed in the last year or so. An intercooler on a supercharger will give you about 20% or so increase in HP depending on the application.

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  #11  
Old 08-27-2006, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer113
Well all I know is the maximum increase of intake temp with a supercharger is 50o and a turbo is a lot higher that that. At 50 in Mp with a supercharger, a intercooler is not needed unless you fly at extreme altitudes. They are racing at Reno at 60 in MP without intercoolers, unless that has changed in the last year or so. An intercooler on a supercharger will give you about 20% or so increase in HP depending on the application.

Jack
E Racer 113
I'm just qurious how the same degree of air compression results in different temp. values? The air does not know if it is compressed by a turbo or supercharger. They are both pumps. it should be the same rise in temperature.
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2006, 08:20 PM
eracer113 eracer113 is offline
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The turbo charger is driven by exhaust gasses, and in the process transfers a lot of additional heat to the compressed air on the iintake side, not there with a belt driven supercharger.

Jack E Racer 113
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2006, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer113
Well all I know is the maximum increase of intake temp with a supercharger is 50o and a turbo is a lot higher that that. At 50 in Mp with a supercharger, a intercooler is not needed unless you fly at extreme altitudes. They are racing at Reno at 60 in MP without intercoolers, unless that has changed in the last year or so. An intercooler on a supercharger will give you about 20% or so increase in HP depending on the application.

Jack
E Racer 113
The fast boy (DG) runs intercoolers, ADI and spray bar water in the Sport class now. At 60 inches Ab with 80% efficiency you'd be looking at 260F CDT on an 80F day at Reno with a supercharger. You'd be throwing away 15-20% power without an intercooler and running a big risk of preignition to boot.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2006, 10:01 PM
eracer113 eracer113 is offline
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But i'm not talking about running at reno. I still say for the type of power needed for our application, an intercooler is not needed for a supercharger, better yes, but not necessary. It is needed for a turbocharger, that was my point.

Jack
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:09 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer113
The turbo charger is driven by exhaust gasses, and in the process transfers a lot of additional heat to the compressed air on the iintake side, not there with a belt driven supercharger.
I dont think so. I think this is a myth. The real reason is the turbocharger spindle is travelling a horrendous amount faster than a supercharger, and at full boost the compressor is usually a long way from running at optimum, therefore you get non-adiabatic heating (heat added not related to compression.)

I think this is right.. I got a turbine theory book here somewhere..


S
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