Canard Community Forum  

Go Back   Canard Community Forum > Firewall Backward and Forward > Turbo or Super Charging
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 04-20-2007, 12:06 PM
JonC's Avatar
JonC JonC is offline
LEz - N555LE Q - N555QA
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post
as far as adding 10% power just for take off, never heard of it being done cause the real benefit, in my eyes, it to have more power available at altitude.
Its quite common on certified factory turbo-normalized systems for them to run up to 32.5" on takeoff and run around 24-28" in cruise. It does make an observable difference.
__________________
~Nathan
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-20-2007, 12:25 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade View Post
I think you'll learn with experience that the real benefit of a turbo is shorter take-off and quicker climb. Despite your plans for high altitude travel I doubt that, in the real world, your Cozy will ever see the higher flight levels. I've found 10 - 12,000' ideal for cruising.
Well John - how often have you travelled 1600 miles each way for a long weekend, the few i know that have done it regularly in longs do fly at the high altitudes, for short 3 - 400 mile hops, i will not see 25000, not efficient.

The take off roll with a Cozy AND a CS prop and 180 HP is quite acceptable, the extra 30 hp i am gonna see should make it slightly better.

just a conjecture, me thinks the CS prop will influence ground roll more than the extra 30 hp on take off.

The design changes to have systems that will operate comfortably to 25,000 feet rather than 15,000 feet are not that significant, so, forward I go.
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-20-2007, 01:29 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

well this thread has digressed to my planned use of my plane and how I will Never use the performance I am designing in.

Lets, for a moment, look at a scenario, señior slade.

You are in California visiting and are ready to go home, you live on the opposite coast now, it is a LOOOOOONG way.

Your Engine systems are designed to allow full climb power to and Full Cruise at 25,000
Your interior heating system will keep you warm and toasty to -30 OAT
There is a 120 knot tail wind at 25,000 feet
you have OX masks with built in mics and plenty of OX on board
You and plane are IFR rated

You still gonna fly at 12,000 feet?
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-20-2007, 02:24 PM
David Clifford's Avatar
David Clifford David Clifford is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Howell, Michigan 48843
Posts: 587
Default

Wellllllllll,,,,,There are doers and there are pipe dreamers. John is someone who is actually flying and doing it.
__________________
Dave Clifford

Last edited by Dust : 04-20-2007 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-20-2007, 02:52 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post
well this thread has digressed to my planned use of my plane and how I will Never use the performance I am designing in.

Lets, for a moment, look at a scenario, señior slade.

You are in California visiting and are ready to go home, you live on the opposite coast now, it is a LOOOOOONG way.

Your Engine systems are designed to allow full climb power to and Full Cruise at 25,000
Your interior heating system will keep you warm and toasty to -30 OAT
There is a 120 knot tail wind at 25,000 feet
you have OX masks with built in mics and plenty of OX on board
You and plane are IFR rated

You still gonna fly at 12,000 feet?
Me thinks you and pax won't like the itch of the masks for 4 hours at a stretch or the bill/ hassle to refill the O2 on each leg. Takes a while to refill big tanks- can't just crank it in there. Yep, sounds really nice but I think you will find yourself below 12K on the majority of flights. It is nice to have the capability however.

Nice thing if the engine ever quits at FL250, you will probably be within gliding distance of a paved runway unless you are over the rocks.

Is it too late to add pressurization?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-20-2007, 02:55 PM
TMann's Avatar
TMann TMann is offline
Got Foam?
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 756
Default

Yeah........Paine Stewart had a pressurized cabin. (and that was a certified aircraft.)
__________________
T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpt 10 N200LZ
Got Foam?
Mann's Airplane Factory
We add rocket's to everything!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:04 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Yep, sounds really nice but I think you will find yourself below 12K on the majority of flights. It is nice to have the capability however.

Is it too late to add pressurization?
Absolutely agree, i think, if memory serves me correctly, a canula goes to 18,000 feet and I will probable only bust that level occasionally, but, I guarantee you, ifin i don't design the systems to allow me to do it on occasions where it will be a benefit, I'll regret it.

If you look at the certificated, plane market - more and more are comin out that are rated to 25,000, almost becoming a standard option

fun stuff
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-20-2007, 05:11 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post

If you look at the certificated, plane market - more and more are comin out that are rated to 25,000, almost becoming a standard option

fun stuff
Yep Cirrus, Mooney etc. are all coming out with turbos and high cruise speeds at 25,000 feet. Unless pressurized, you'll see most of these below 18,000 most of the time with the a rare trip at 20K plus when good winds are to be had or to get over some weather or maybe when the wife and kids are not along. 25K gets you over a lot of weather but not all of it.

Cannulas are much more comfortable for extended periods than masks once you get over how weird your companions look. ATC does not want slow moving traffic above 18K in many cases where routes are saturated but may give you 25K in the wide open spaces. Flying high is cool if you can do it but is a lot more fun in a pressurized aircraft.

I say power to you and prove us all wrong here as we try to stomp on your dreams.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-20-2007, 08:36 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

Quote:
You still gonna fly at 12,000 feet?
Yep, probably. I have OX in the plane and might try a higher flight someday, but I'm in no real rush. 18k is my ceiling anyway.

Quote:
I say power to you
Absolutely. There's nothing wrong (and everything right) with having a dream.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-23-2007, 10:46 AM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade View Post
18k is my ceiling anyway.
you not gonna get your IFR ticket?
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-23-2007, 12:31 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

No time... and my IFR written runs out (again) in July.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-23-2007, 10:47 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Default

Getting the ticket and staying current if you can't fly much can be a PITA. Some of my professional pilot friends are always urgeing me to get it.

My view is the only thing slightly less dangerous than a VFR pilot in IMC is a non- current, low time IFR pilot in IMC. Lots of dirt poisoning accidents in this category unfortunately.

When I retire and have the time to get it, stay current and use it on every trip, I'll think about it.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-24-2007, 09:59 AM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

In Michigan, if you want to go much - you better be IFR. The few times i have gone with vtail nick, we usually ended up filing, either on the ground or in the air.

Yes, keeping the 6 ifr landings every 6 months is a pain cause even when you file - the landings usually end up being vfr.

We have 73 "sun days" a year, if memory serves me right.

We have not flown hours in the soup, usually just to get on top or to get below, however, last year, coming back from oshkosh, the clouds started at about 2000 feet and went up to 12,000 feet, so from just over the coast to Detroit, it was IFR. In and out of the clouds.

A few years ago, I watched a Cozy pilot plan his flight from Mich. to the east coast, took a long time and he still gambled that the clouds would still be broken when he got to the east coast and hoped he could get through them on his way. That is not the way i wish to travel.

In Georgia a few years ago, the ceiling was 400 feet for 4 days and severe clear 60 miles north, we rented a car to get home.

My opinion, these birds are fast cross country birds and to be safe in them, get ifr and keep it up, DO NOT FLY THROUGH THUNDER STORMS CLASS 1 ,2,3,4,5.

I will have no trouble keeping current as vtail Nick is always available as a safety pilot as i will be for him.
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-24-2007, 10:17 AM
Leon Leon is offline
slightly crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austria
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
DO NOT FLY THROUGH THUNDER STORMS CLASS 1 ,2,3,4,5
actually, don't fly through Thunderstorms, no matter what number they are wearing

please xplain what you mean with IFR landings ?

if I file and fly IFR, it's IFR from T/O to landing (unless i request or cancel IFR in mid air)
so please tell me, if you file IFR, how do you land vfr ?
__________________
-- future insane homebuilder --
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
if you file IFR, how do you land vfr ?
They ask you/tell you - you should have the airport in sight, have a nice day. If the conditions at the airport are not IFR, your landing will not be.
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.