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  #46  
Old 04-24-2007, 10:57 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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61.57 covers IFR currency requirements. To stay current in a powered aircraft, you must shoot 6 instrument approaches, holding procedures, and intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.

If you can't stay current, then you must complete a competency check per 61.57 (d).

As for thunderstorms, I was trained that the FAA guidelines in the AIM say to STAY >25 miles away.
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  #47  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:32 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
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I agree that the IFR ticket would be highly useful in many circumstances when using your plane for XC travel. My only point was to stay current (more than the regs require) and use it on every XC trip you can. Set higher limits you are comfortable with.

I've flown a bit in IMC right seat in some twins. Single pilot, better be well organized and on the ball. An autopilot is highly useful IMO.

First step get PPL, get airplane built (equip for IFR if that is your plan) start flying VFR then go for the IFR ticket.
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  #48  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:42 PM
Leon Leon is offline
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Quote:
If the conditions at the airport are not IFR, your landing will not be.
ok, so thats really different to here in europe. if i file ifr, my flightis ifr, period. i take off, fly and land under ifr rules. i can do a visual approach and still have it count as ifr (as long as my flightplan states that i am IFR), because the controller still has the job of separating me from other a/c.

situation here:
A)
I file IFR and go fly. I am under radar controll ALL the time, and the controller is responsible for a/c separation. If he tells me "radar vectors" he is even responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance. I fly from A (IFR departure) to B (IFR arrival). Weather sucks, so I choose a CAT I approach ILS. I land at B, the tower controller closes my flight plan. voila, instant IFR take off, flight and landing.

B) I file IFR and go fly. I am unter radar control at my departure Airport. Controller is responsible for separation. VMC conditions prevail. Controller has lots of traffic so he tells me "visual left/right turn direct to some point or radio beacon (NDB,VOR,GPS Point)" he is still responsible for a/c separation, but I am responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance, even if i am below MOCA or MORA. Controller picks me up at some point and tells me "direct your point" to fly to where I want to go. I am still IFR. I finish my flight as mentioned above.

C) same works the other way round. I file IFR, depart via SID, fly to where I want to go, VMC conditions prevail, I call the controller "airport in sight, request visual approach". If he rogers that, I fly any sort of pattern (normally standard pattern) and land visually, but it's still IFR as the controller still has to separate me form other a/c.

D) at any stage can I request or cancel IFR, and end or continue to fly unter VFR rules. this does not count IFR from the point I cancel of up to the point where I request IFR

that's why I don't understand the problem of not achieving IFR landings. it's not the controllers choice. it's mine.

you guys can fly IFR without radar control ? as long as he doedn't tell me " IFR cancelled at time xx:xx" I am unter IFR rules. and if i don't want to cancel, he can't make me, unless I wan't to do something that can't be done under IFR rules (like aerobatics)
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  #49  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:48 PM
Dave Dave is offline
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"get airplane built (equip for IFR if that is your plan) start flying VFR then go for the IFR ticket."

This is my plan, but, can you get an IFR license in a Cozy?


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  #50  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:56 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
ok, so thats really different to here in europe. if i file ifr, my flightis ifr, period. i take off, fly and land under ifr rules. i can do a visual approach and still have it count as ifr (as long as my flightplan states that i am IFR), because the controller still has the job of separating me from other a/c.

situation here:
A)
I file IFR and go fly. I am under radar controll ALL the time, and the controller is responsible for a/c separation. If he tells me "radar vectors" he is even responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance. I fly from A (IFR departure) to B (IFR arrival). Weather sucks, so I choose a CAT I approach ILS. I land at B, the tower controller closes my flight plan. voila, instant IFR take off, flight and landing.

B) I file IFR and go fly. I am unter radar control at my departure Airport. Controller is responsible for separation. VMC conditions prevail. Controller has lots of traffic so he tells me "visual left/right turn direct to some point or radio beacon (NDB,VOR,GPS Point)" he is still responsible for a/c separation, but I am responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance, even if i am below MOCA or MORA. Controller picks me up at some point and tells me "direct your point" to fly to where I want to go. I am still IFR. I finish my flight as mentioned above.

C) same works the other way round. I file IFR, depart via SID, fly to where I want to go, VMC conditions prevail, I call the controller "airport in sight, request visual approach". If he rogers that, I fly any sort of pattern (normally standard pattern) and land visually, but it's still IFR as the controller still has to separate me form other a/c.

D) at any stage can I request or cancel IFR, and end or continue to fly unter VFR rules. this does not count IFR from the point I cancel of up to the point where I request IFR

that's why I don't understand the problem of not achieving IFR landings. it's not the controllers choice. it's mine.

you guys can fly IFR without radar control ? as long as he doedn't tell me " IFR cancelled at time xx:xx" I am unter IFR rules. and if i don't want to cancel, he can't make me, unless I wan't to do something that can't be done under IFR rules (like aerobatics)
Its the same here. If you go IFR you are IFR untill you cancel the IFR . if you file and practice IFR approch it is IFR even if the conditions are VFR
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  #51  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:18 PM
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those must be west coast rules, you are more lax there, here in the midwest, if the airport is not IFR, U B vfr and if you do approaches under the hood to make em ifr for you - you needs a safety pilot.
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  #52  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:27 PM
Leon Leon is offline
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so the airport has to "allow" ifr ?? what kinda stupidity is that ? every airliner is IFR, no matter what. admittedly they won't fly to HumptyDumpty Airport in mid-somewhere.

but as you tell it dust, that would mean that the airport just doesn't accept IFR and ya have to go VFR (own separation and so on).
I can't go IFR if the A/P don't offer IFR approaches, that's logical, aint it ? and i need a radar/tower controller for IFR ops, right ?

so, where's the problem ? pls explain. you go fly IFR at some A/P that has IFR ops of any kind. voila, IFR ...
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  #53  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:51 PM
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mmmm - they accept ifr, but if the conditions are not ifr, then it be a vfr landing.
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dust

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  #54  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:04 PM
Leon Leon is offline
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ok so that definitely is different to here ...
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  #55  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:51 PM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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Leon, don't listen to Dust because he's not very good at explaining what he means.

Lynn is correct. If you file IFR here, you operate under IFR rules until you cancel IFR. Even if there's not a cloud in the sky. Operating under IFR rules does NOT always mean instrument meteorological conditions (IMC).

However, for purposes of maintaining instrument currency, you must log at least 6 approaches in either actual IMC and/or simulated IMC (under hood with safety pilot). Now, what Dust was trying to say is, you can be IMC enroute for two hours. But when you go to land, if you break out into the clear at say 3,000 feet, then the approach doesn't count as an IFR approach toward currency. You'll execute the landing visually while operating under IFR rules. You just can't count the approach towards currency.

(BTW: There is always the HUGE debate here as to what constitutes "flying the complete approach.")
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Last edited by Wayne Hicks : 04-24-2007 at 03:14 PM.
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  #56  
Old 04-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Leon Leon is offline
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uhaaaaa, so you can fly under IFR rules, but if you're in VMC, the landing does not count towards your IFR landings needed for currency. boy what a mean one.

so you just have the hooooood or bad weather to keep current.
another thing learned, and if explained right, it don't take 10 posts
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  #57  
Old 04-24-2007, 03:30 PM
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Geeeeeez wayne - i thought that is what i said!

heh heh heh
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  #58  
Old 04-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
"get airplane built (equip for IFR if that is your plan) start flying VFR then go for the IFR ticket."

This is my plan, but, can you get an IFR license in a Cozy?
I don't know what any of this has to do with turbo-normalizing, but yes, you can get an instrument rating in a COZY. See:

http://www.cozybuilders.org/2005_Ins...ning/index.htm

for a detailed account of my training in my aircraft.

You just need to find a willing instructor.

See the COZY mailing list archives for many discussions of IFR flights in COZY's.
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  #59  
Old 04-24-2007, 05:17 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
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Thread drift for sure but probably started from flying above 18K with a turbo engine.

I heard mention of ATC being responsible for terrain avoidance. I'd advise all IFR pilots to double up on that responsibility. I have two friends who would be dead right now had they had listened to the controller and not the GPWS.

Ahh. yeah sorry about that. Should have been 2400 feet not 1400!

I'll be having a talk with your supervisor when I get down!
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  #60  
Old 04-24-2007, 06:40 PM
Riseguy Riseguy is offline
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One last item for Dust's benefit. All flights end VFR. If you can't see the runway at DH, or MDA you go missed and try again, or go to your alternate. I don't have Cat 1,2, or 3 capability so no knowledge how they work.
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