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  #1  
Old 09-21-2007, 12:24 PM
neverquit's Avatar
neverquit neverquit is offline
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Default Layup Timing

Here's one for the experienced layup guys out there. You're not really experienced doing layups unless you've experienced extending your layup time way beyond your expected finish time, sudden temp or humidity changes midstream, rain on your layup, layups in the dark, layups when guests or relatives arrive, layups when your wife's tapping her foot because she's all dressed up to go and you're up to elbows in epoxy.

Has anyone done a layup outside in 80+ F degrees and finished just when the temps going down to 50-55 overnight? If so, was it okay in the morning? Its that time of year and I don't feel like tenting my layup yet.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

heating blanket time
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Phil Kriley Phil Kriley is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

My basement stays around 65, so I do my layup with heated epoxy, then I either tent the area or box the part/section and run up the temp to 85 (or more) with electric heaters.

I'd be very concerned about the layup curing properly at 50 degrees. But I'm not an expert, and look forward to reading advice from the experts.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

yeah ........ I tried the electric blanket thing but around 10 o'clock my wife would always nab it and put it back on the bed.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:16 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by neverquit View Post
Has anyone done a layup outside in 80+ F degrees and finished just when the temps going down to 50-55 overnight? If so, was it okay in the morning? Its that time of year and I don't feel like tenting my layup yet.
50-55F is NOT warm enough to effect a good cure. You don't get out of the "B" stage, and although the epoxy may feel hard and cured, it isn't. Keep the layups warm, or don't do them.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
yeah ........ I tried the electric blanket thing but around 10 o'clock my wife would always nab it and put it back on the bed.
That's 'cause it's either you or the blanket that time of night. Wonder why she chooses the blanket?

Anyway, perfect case in point. Some guys call the plane their mistress.


Quote:
50-55F is NOT warm enough to effect a good cure.
Agreed, not looking for cure. Looking for "stable" or "gummy" until the sun comes up again to cure it while I'm at work. Reason for my madness is I'm just stretching the summer a little just to get my strake tips on and glassed with my wings attached before I flip her over again and close the door for good. Gotta' do this in the yard.

Last edited by neverquit : 09-21-2007 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-22-2007, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Once it gets warm again, it'll come out of the B stage.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:55 PM
chasingmars chasingmars is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur View Post
Once it gets warm again, it'll come out of the B stage.
My understanding is, depending on the system, you may need more than warm weather for this. For 285, there's been some discussion that indicates that a cure stalled in the beta stage needs about 55C (130F) to kick it back into curing properly again. Can't say for sure, but, I keep my layups under an electric blanket when it's cool until they are done, and I'm planning on a 100% post-cure cycle.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
For 285, there's been some discussion that indicates that a cure stalled in the beta stage needs about 55C (130F) to kick it back into curing properly again.
Wow! Never heard or read that. Can you direct me to your source?
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Sounds like another name for "Post Cure"

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  #11  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:48 AM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter View Post
Sounds like another name for "Post Cure"
Nope. "B" stage is an uncured stage of epoxy in which the bonds have not fully formed, but the material is hard (so it can fool you into thinking it's cured). Some epoxies will continue curing when raised back to their standard curing temperature, but some (285, apparently, if Craig is correct) need to be raised to a higher temperature to get the cure cycle going again.

This is NOT post-curing, which just raises the heat deflection temperature of fully cured epoxy. Not the same thing at all.
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:43 PM
philc1 philc1 is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Very interesting topic. Thinking back, any time I've stretched things on the low end of the temperature scale it has been for filler tasks with West System (105/205) "fast hardener" which can be used in temps in the 50 degree range. My epoxy system of choice for structural layups has been Gougeon ProSet. Does any one know if ProSet (125/226) has the same requirement for elevated temperature to restart cure if cure is delayed in B stage?

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  #13  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:43 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Layup Timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by philc1 View Post
... Does any one know if ProSet (125/226) has the same requirement for elevated temperature to restart cure if cure is delayed in B stage?
Google is your friend. From:

http://www.gougeon.com/prosetepoxy/125-226.htm

"PRO-SET 125/226 mixtures maintain excellent working properties until gel takes place, and the mixture cures to a B-stage, during which it may be brittle. Brittleness is more evident at lower temperatures. The epoxy mixture will temper over the next several days at room temperature, and after two weeks will reach an acceptable degree of cure for some applications. Elevated temperature post-cure will increase the degree of cure and improve mechanical properties and high temperature performance."
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