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Old 01-22-2008, 12:45 PM
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Default Safety vrs Check lists

On the forum i keep hearing - use check lists and all will be well.

I have always chuckled on this one - the ONLY check lists i have ever seen anyone use, including 6 or 7 flight instructors, are run up check lists.

Never saw someone use a prelanding or emergency one.

Once during a simulated power out - i grabbed the check list and the instructor yelled at me - DON'T WASTE TIME ON CHECK LIST - YOU HAVE TO KNOW IT BY HEART!

Don't you love reality - check lists don't work cuz nobody uses one - sooooooo - we have plenty of carb icing and gear up problems

Just do it the simple way - design out the problems - these are your planes - make em safe - make em robust
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:42 AM
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neverquit neverquit is offline
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Default Re: Safety vrs Check lists

Quote:
Don't you love reality - check lists don't work cuz nobody uses one - sooooooo - we have plenty of carb icing and gear up problems
Well, not nobody. I was luck enough to have a good CFI and I must say the word "certified" doesn't make them a know-all. My CFI was persistent on teaching me to use the checklist EVERY time including emergency landings. Today I still do. I totally agree to engineer out the 1930's technology but I'll always have my checklist.

By the way, that instructor that yelled at you? Run away from him! He's wrong and you're not in the army.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:08 PM
aviator_edb aviator_edb is offline
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Default Re: Safety vrs Check lists

I had a good CFI as well. He inforced the rule that I have the checklists on my lap at all times. He otld me to have certain initial tasks drilled into my head (like getting out of a spin) then everything else needs to go on a checklist.

I even go through the list for cruise, descent, etc. I'm only renting til the Cozy is done but I wont fly unless I've got my checklists with me.

Ask my brother-in-law how much it cost him to repair his King Air jump plane after the dummy did a gear up landing.

I dont think checklists are a replacement for common sense. If I'm low and slow and have problems I'm not going to waste time on the checklist. By the time I turn to the right list I'm gonna be a meat pancake but for 'most' situations there is going to be time; even for most emergencies. You should have the first steps drilled into you then you should always go to the list if possible.

Just my 0.02 dollars worth
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Safety vrs Check lists

Well, from personal experience, aviators as a group do not follow those procedures.

On the jump plane - their may be available an attachment to the gear system that puts the gear down at slow speed - but do any get sold? Is there a demand for it generally - no.

Do a survey - naw - don't do a survey cause they all lie - heh heh heh

most say they use a checklist regularly, but, fly with them and you will only see one on run up. Just the way that it is.

We as a group need to make these planes, all planes, inherently safer.

get rid of carb ice from occurring
Have gear deploy if inadvertently left up
install vg's to reduce stall on all planes they are available for to reduce damage on a bad or off airport landing. They are available for many certificated planes as well.

What would happen to insurance rates if gear up landing never ever occurred again?

What about fatalities if all planes reduced landing speeds by 10 knots?

If carb icing never ever caused an engine failure?
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dust

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  #5  
Old 01-23-2008, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Safety vrs Check lists

My instructor always encouraged me to use check lists. Still for landing a Cessna -150 a flow check was used for landing and touch and goes (fuel on, mixture rich, carb heat on, etc.) I memorized those checklists and use them always. I think that during hight pilot workload that getting a manual out and diverting ones attention is probably best avoided. As for emergencies, he encouraged me to memorize the emergency procedures, but for some situations, like, an engine out at altitude, he encouraged me to use the written checklist if time permitted. I guess that what I am saying is that even if you don't read it from a paper, it still is a check list if you execute it consistently.

Its all about good judgment. When I took my check ride I thought a couple dozen times that I made a mistake that the examiner would fail me, but what he really was looking for was that I could perform the tasks (stalls ground ref. landings), demonstrate knowledge (regulations, systems, etc) and that in flight planning and emergencies, preflight etc. that good judgment was used.
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