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Old 10-20-2004, 04:41 PM
edgardocelectric edgardocelectric is offline
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Location: Reseda California
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Default A few thoughts and maybe suggestions on Turbos

Hello to all,
I have been reading with great interest about John Slade and others are having with their turbo chargers.

I might have a few suggestions that might help.
My understanding is that most of you with over spinning possibly?
One Dicussion I read about was about putting an optical tach sensor.
Coming from the remote hobby and flying multi turbines engines (that's small jet engines about the size of a one pound can of coffee) With anywhere from 16 pounds of thrust to as high as 50 pounds, capable of lifting a two hundred pound remote off the ground. They used modify turbocharger impellers spinning at around 120,000 rpm to as high as 250,000 rpm.
I used an optical tach that is both small and very lite about 8Oz. with 9voit battery on my twin engine Thunderbolt Two (A-10 Wart Hog) One good thing it's not that expensive about 150.00 and the sensor is very small and very accurate to 300,000 rpm. and best of all the sensor can be mounted remotely away from very high spinning impeller. And they do custom work so you can have the display mounted on your dash.
The sensor it self is about 1/4 inch with a L.E.D. and what looks like a small photocell that is about the size of 1/8 inch. or so. Installation is very easy to do, all you do is paint half the impeller nut black paint and other haft white and center the sensor as far away as five inches away.
The producer is TNC and their address can be had from the following sources R/C JETS from Traplet Pub. and R/C Modeler.
Or oil a starvation which will destroy it in a heart beat.
Years a go when I was thinking of turbo charging my car when it was a quick way to add ponies under the hood.
I pick up a book on turbo charging from a local Pep boys I think it was. Title: Turbochargers by Peterson
Three things that it said can destroy a turbo start up and shut down, and oil to lube the bearing other than that it will run for ever Over spinning is not a concern. oil and heat are.

1) Start up:
of engine always bring up oil pressure to about ten pounds at the turbo bearing before ignition starts the engine, that way you are always assure your turbo has life saving oil in the bearing.
So it's rather simple hook up to install some sort of delay before the engine kicks over. May be five to ten-second delay should bring pressure up.

2) Shut Down:
depending on turbo unit and bearings some are better than others, the turbo will spin as long as thirty seconds or longer with no oil. So what do you do. One simple item that's on the market is an oil accumatater ( not sure of spelling), what it is during running of engine oil is diverted to this device it's kept away from the engine and thus it's at a lower temp, as well. When the engine is shut down it releases the oil back down into the bearing doing two things cooling it as well as keeping the bearing flooded with life saving oil.

I hope this helps somewhat if at all offers a simple solution.

Edagr Acosta
DEA Services
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2004, 05:19 PM
NWade NWade is offline
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Thumbs up Accumulators...

Ahh, my auto-racing background rears its ugly head again. And again I point out that this was automobiles, NOT airplanes - so YMMV.

We used to use Accumulators all the time on thoroughbred racing engines. Edgar mentioned them; I will attempt to flesh the concept out - but don't rely on this info to do your own installation without consulting a qualified pro!

An Accumulator is a high-pressure tank you mount remotely and run oil lines to (in parallel with the engine's main oil system, not in serial - you'll see why in a minute). A simple on/off valve and you're in business (other than adding extra oil to the system to account for the tank & lines). Before starting the engine, open the valve and let the pressurized oil in the accumulator "blow down" through the engine and provide some pre-ignition lubrication; then crank and run as normal. Just before shutting off the engine, close the accumulator valve (this is why you don't plumb it "serially"!) - the accumulator will now be pressurized to whatever your current engine pressure is; and unless you have a leak in the valve, the pressure will stay there for your next engine start - when you can again "blow down" the accumulated oil into the engine before cranking.

Take care,
--Noel
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Old 10-31-2004, 03:47 PM
DustinD DustinD is offline
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How about mounting a spare electric oil pump that will make sure that the engine and turbocharger have oil pressure before they are started. It could be set to shut down after the oil temperature gets below a certain limit to make sure that parts of the engine or turbo do not get or stay too hot after shut down.
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Old 10-31-2004, 06:27 PM
Nathan Gifford Nathan Gifford is offline
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Default

That is the same device they use on some engines to prevent wear and tear on startup. I think it is called a 'pre-oiler' and switches on for about 30 seconds prior to engaging the starter to bring the oil pressure to normal.

I've wondered about using something like Slick 50 (I think its PTFE). I use it in all the cars, once they pass break in. I don't use it the way the manufacturer says to, and I only add 1 to 2 oz at oil change. I had a Ford Econoline van that I sold with 220K miles on it (insurance agent says it was the only one left on their records) and the new owners drove it twice to Mexico from Louisiana and once to North Carolina...If I had know it had that many miles left in it, I don't think I would have sold it!

The way the PTFE it works is a little like a pre-oiler. It puts a film of PTFE on the components and then keeps them lubed until the oil get there. I wonder how well this might work in turbo?
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Old 11-01-2004, 01:51 AM
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Steve parkins Steve parkins is offline
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Default my 2 cents

toyota had a warrantee issue with oil filters(no check valves) seems most did not and the oil was not there at start up and the r20's were blowing cams and valves, at the time NAPA sold a fram fillter that did not have it,so u had to buy a toyota filter......i wonder ? would a good filter with a check valve
holed oil at the hight of the turbo ? after shut down ? befor start up ?
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Old 11-01-2004, 10:55 AM
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Dust Dust is offline
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slick 50 is, i believe, bad stuff..... they suspend the stuff on cellulois (sp), wood pulp and it clogs stuff up.

They had an aviation product and had to pay for damages and pulled it.
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