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View Poll Results: Which engine are you using, installing or planning on?
Continental 2 1.64%
Deltahawk 7 5.74%
Jet 2 1.64%
Lycoming 31 25.41%
Rotary 48 39.34%
Subaru 8 6.56%
Other Diesel 5 4.10%
Undecided 16 13.11%
Other Automotive 1 0.82%
LS1 V8... 405 HP 1 0.82%
Jabiru 5100 1 0.82%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:23 PM
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now these folks have the "sound" down!!!!

http://www.hog-air.com/
  #47  
Old 12-19-2004, 01:25 AM
Chanler Chanler is offline
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The jet won't have ground clearance problems, even if I have to move it aft 2 feet to keep the cg in range. I'd be much more worried about constructing the mount. We'll have to see how the effeciency works out. I was looking at thier website and 2 of the 150 lb thrust turbojets would yield about an hour's worth of runtime at full power at low level. Hopefully the tubofan will be more effecient.

The tuboprop I'm not overly concerned with either for a couple of reasons. First, I can move everything aft that most people seem to move forwards. (batteries, heaters, kitchen sinks) Second, I'm building an E-Racer, and there is a design mod to move the seats back a couple inches to accomodate larger people. Moving my own assets rearward should help too. My biggest concern will be hot exhaust on the prop since tractor engines are behind the prop as well.
  #48  
Old 12-21-2004, 08:33 PM
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Wow, 27 rotaries. Only 10 Lycs. As a rotary guy, I really like the trend. The more who take action on this choice, the better the choice should become. May or may not be representative of the experimental segment, but seems to indicated interest in this conversion and its hoped for benefits....and away from the Lyc....and, imho, high price. Interesting either way.

Kewl.

Chris
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  #49  
Old 12-21-2004, 08:40 PM
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Like any poll, the numbers are skewed. There are regulars here who use Lycomings, but haven't bother to vote.
  #50  
Old 12-22-2004, 12:39 PM
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Default Engine Dillemas...

I really like the idea of a turbo rotary for flying at 17.5k (or more depending on if/when I get IFR) ... but by the time I would end up needing an engine, I'd be foolish to not to go with the Renesis.

I'm sure Tracy will have all the kinks worked out with a NA Renesis. I would really like to have it be turbo normalized. I know Tracy doesn't like turbo's and plumbing turbos and setting up such a contraption by myself may proove too daunting for myself.

I like Al Wicks 2.5 Subie engine and the simplicity of his install as it resembels the Lyc in layout. He says it performs like the O-320, although I'd like a bit more HP...

Ah well I'll figure it out when I get there...
  #51  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:31 AM
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Default Mazda concept car in AU features turbo Renesis

Those interested in the Renesis might find this link interesting:

http://www.mazda.com.au/currentnews....cleZoneID=3225

Here's a select quote:
The engine’s pulling power, or torque, receives a substantial boost over a wide rev band, with it peaking about 350Nm, an increase of almost 65 per cent over the road car.
  #52  
Old 12-23-2004, 07:29 PM
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1286 1286 is offline
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Default Pratt & Whitney

Just caught this from EAA.

<http://www.pwc.ca/en/0_0/0_0_8/0_0_8_1_1_1.asp?datein_news=12/20/2004&id_news=387>

Sorry if it doesn't come thru. At 900 lbs of thrust we are getting closer. I like to hear about fuel useage.

Bob

OK john how do I do HTML tags here?
  #53  
Old 12-24-2004, 02:53 AM
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Kumaros Kumaros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
Those interested in the Renesis might find this link interesting:

http://www.mazda.com.au/currentnews....cleZoneID=3225

Here's a select quote:
The engine’s pulling power, or torque, receives a substantial boost over a wide rev band, with it peaking about 350Nm, an increase of almost 65 per cent over the road car.
I see your 350 and raise you 500
Although I like the rotary's light weight and simplicity, I like turbodiesels even better. All modern common-rail turbodiesels, especially V6's from all major auto manufacturers, boast excellent power with monstrous torque from low down in the RPM's (about 500 Nm from 1600 to 3000 RPM). At those values, one could easily detune the engine a little and operate it without a redrive.
Kumaros
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Oh, and a merry Christmas to you all!
  #54  
Old 12-24-2004, 03:54 AM
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Further to my previous post, here are some interesting links to support my point:

1) DaimlerChrysler 3 liters V6
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...ercedes/1.html

2) VW V6 TDI
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...kswagen/1.html

3) Ford Jaguar PSA Group 2.7 liters V6
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-te...pe-diesel.html

4) Isuzu (GM) 3 liters V6
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/technol...oject2/04.html

Almost all of the above engines are about 200 kg (400 lbs), aluminum block (sometimes with iron liners), about 200 HP, 400-500 Nm from 1500-3000 RPM.
Slightly downrated to 180 HP at 2800 RPM they would be ideal for a Cozy-Aerocanard.
What do you think?

Kumaros
It's all Greek to me
  #55  
Old 12-24-2004, 10:28 AM
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Kumaros,

Unfortunately, the 400 pounds would be an issue, even if that were for the entire installation. I don't have the number but I'm certain the plans motor weight is much less.

Tom
  #56  
Old 12-24-2004, 11:38 AM
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Kumaros,

I'd love to use the VW or MB V6 diesels, but have a few concerns. First is the weight, which tnt addressed. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember a Lycoming coming in around 300 lbs. complete, maybe 350 with turbos.

Second, here in the US, we can't get these engines. You are lucky in this case to be in the EU. Even if we could get these engines in the US, I understand that for the VW engine at least, they are very expensive. The new V10 TDI (I know it isn't the V6, but it shares manufacturing and technology) is rumored to cost half of the $60k US price of the V10 TDI Touareg! I know the V6 is a higher-volume and simpler engine, but it still may be a bit too pricey compared with a JDM Mazda or Subaru with a reduction drive.

The third unknown is how readily these engines could be converted to good old Jet-A. Many of the new diesels have complicated controls and mechanicals to reach high power and high emissions standards. How much of this automotive control would have to be removed? Are the pump seals and injectors compatible with Jet-A? What are the complications of removing the emissions crap, will that still let the engine run? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm sure with enough time and money you could answer them.

Still, I would love to fly with a turbo-diesel. Even though it gets really cold here, and the small field (litterally) in my back yard doesn't have Jet-A. Diesels just have so much better fuel economy, torque, and longevity when compared to conventional and rotary engines, and the new ones finally have enough power.

-- Len
  #57  
Old 12-24-2004, 12:18 PM
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From the XP-360 web site, the XP-360 weighs 287 lbs carbureted and 290 lbs if fuel injected. This is the dry weight with all accessories.
Mark
  #58  
Old 12-25-2004, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levansic
Kumaros,

I'd love to use the VW or MB V6 diesels, but have a few concerns. First is the weight, which tnt addressed. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember a Lycoming coming in around 300 lbs. complete, maybe 350 with turbos.

Second, here in the US, we can't get these engines. You are lucky in this case to be in the EU. Even if we could get these engines in the US, I understand that for the VW engine at least, they are very expensive. The new V10 TDI (I know it isn't the V6, but it shares manufacturing and technology) is rumored to cost half of the $60k US price of the V10 TDI Touareg! I know the V6 is a higher-volume and simpler engine, but it still may be a bit too pricey compared with a JDM Mazda or Subaru with a reduction drive.

The third unknown is how readily these engines could be converted to good old Jet-A. Many of the new diesels have complicated controls and mechanicals to reach high power and high emissions standards. How much of this automotive control would have to be removed? Are the pump seals and injectors compatible with Jet-A? What are the complications of removing the emissions crap, will that still let the engine run? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm sure with enough time and money you could answer them.

Still, I would love to fly with a turbo-diesel. Even though it gets really cold here, and the small field (litterally) in my back yard doesn't have Jet-A. Diesels just have so much better fuel economy, torque, and longevity when compared to conventional and rotary engines, and the new ones finally have enough power.

-- Len
levansic
quote:
I'd love to use the VW or MB V6 diesels, but have a few concerns. First is the weight, which tnt addressed. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember a Lycoming coming in around 300 lbs. complete, maybe 350 with turbos

That's right, according to the Aviation engines site at
http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/Contents.html
the weight of the 4cyl; TIO-360; 200-210hp/2575rpm is 348-364#
So now we are talking about 40-50 lbs. difference. Admittedly, the turbodiesel will need a hefty battery and a big radiator, but these can be placed forward, balancing the higher weight of the engine. Besides, the 400 lbs. of the turbodiesel are in street guise. I'm sure that a lot of emissions control stuff can be thrown overboard for a significant weight reduction.

levansic
quote:
Second, here in the US, we can't get these engines.

There in the US, with your avgas and autogas prices, you don't need a turbodiesel so much. I wish we didn't have to pay about 7 USD per avgas gallon, but that's Greece for you.

As far as price is concerned, I'm not talking crate engine prices, I'm talking junkyard prices. For an example of the Isuzu turbodiesel, currently installed in all models of Saab, a lot of Opels, Renaults, etc.:
http://www.autoscout24.de/home/index...id=xinwvnosybd

levansic
quote:
The third unknown is how readily these engines could be converted to good old Jet-A.
I may be wrong, but I think you just add a little two stroke oil, just like you would do for a rotary. Or you use plain old diesel fuel.

Kumaros
It's all Greek to me
  #59  
Old 12-25-2004, 10:17 PM
Quentin Quentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumaros
The third unknown is how readily these engines could be converted to good old Jet-A.
I may be wrong, but I think you just add a little two stroke oil, just like you would do for a rotary. Or you use plain old diesel fuel.

Kumaros
It's all Greek to me
I may be wrong but my understanding is that regular diesel fuel will gel at cold temps. That wouldn't be a good thing at say 12,000 at a neg temps.
  #60  
Old 12-26-2004, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin
I may be wrong but my understanding is that regular diesel fuel will gel at cold temps. That wouldn't be a good thing at say 12,000 at a neg temps.
Quentin,
you are right, summer grade diesel tends to get "cloudy" and finally gel at very low temperatures. There are however solutions for this. You can mix in a little jet fuel, or some additives, or, even better, use the plentiful hot water from the engine cooling system to heat the fuel tank to acceptable temperatures, just as you use it to keep your toesies toasty. Isn't water-cooling wonderful?
Kumaros
It's all Greek to me
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