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  #1  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:18 PM
Dennis Passey's Avatar
Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Default Aerocomposites CSP

High everybody- Have read CSP posts here on the forum archives and elsewhere. The MT CSP seems pretty 50/50.
So.....Finally decided to just call Aerocomposites about theirs...but they be gone for the holidayz...anybody heard anything about their product? Its going on a IO-540 300hp variant.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2006, 04:17 PM
Ron Springer Ron Springer is offline
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Don Herzstein is using one now. I would check with him.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2006, 07:02 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Thanx Ron, I have emailed him... Happy holidays to you and to all!!...
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Old 12-23-2006, 08:54 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Passey View Post
High everybody- Have read CSP posts here on the forum archives and elsewhere. The MT CSP seems pretty 50/50.
So.....Finally decided to just call Aerocomposites about theirs...but they be gone for the holidayz...anybody heard anything about their product? Its going on a IO-540 300hp variant.
Dave Ronneberg is using the first pusher prop they made on his Berkut with a IO 540. Last time I talked to him he was very happy with it. Last year at the Columbia flyin he was making mid field takeoffs. Columbia is 4600 ft and he used less than 1/4 of it with a 45 degree departure angle. I believe he said 4000 ft/ min climb was no problem. the only problem was the price like $15,000. the main drawback to all the CSPs is if there is any damage to a blade more then a small nicks it cost you allmost as much as a new prop for the repair. if a blade is determined to be beyond repair the factory will replace all the blades and rebuild the hub with all new parts. they consider it a prop strike and they will only do a complete overhaul. they have to protect their own A****S first and you get the bill for it. I know of two cases where the owners have paid the equivilent of 3 props and still only own one. Dennis when you find out the current price let us all know.
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2006, 01:53 AM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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WoooooW to said performance of said berkut..wonder whut that would do in a Mark IV?
The Aerocomposites website states that CSprop model 2300 is good to 3000rpm and to 310hp, weighs 38 pounds and will cost 11,100. + 675 for a spinner kit. 3 choices of actuation and etc... thats a lot of shamoolians.
If I win the Monte Hall "Lets make a deal" cash doorprize .....
Man I would like to do this to a Cozy....gotta find out how Don likes his...
Craig Catto makes a nice prop for the 540 that is talked about on the Velocity website...linked back to his site. Wonder about that...?
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2006, 01:39 PM
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Hi Dennis,

I got one of the first production version pushers (model 3300-P) they shipped last summer. I am not flying yet so I can’t say anything about performance, but the quality looks outstanding. I checked the weight and it is right on spec at 50 LBS.
The main reason I got this one instead of the MT was the engineering in the blade and the hub attachment. It is a true composite propeller with a foam core and covered with fiberglass and carbon fiber layers. The fiberglass is woven into “socks” that are slid over the core and around the blade retention rings. Compared to the MT prop, which is basically a wood prop with a thin fiberglass layer and wood screws to hold the blade to the hub. Harry had a cutaway comparison of each blade in his booth in Oshkosh that he showed me. There is no comparison between these two propellers.

The second reason I went with Aerocomposites is the fact that MT required an MT governor. I already had a Mc Cauley governor on my engine which is compatible with the Aerocomposites prop. Add in the additional shipping and customs costs and the difference between the two was around $1,500. I know the prices have gone up since I ordered mine so the difference will be a bit more.

The third reason for my decision was the service people were getting from MT. I have heard too many horror stories from other Velocity owners about MT service.

Mine is bolted to a 260HP IO-540 on a Velocity XLRG and sitting in my garage at home. First engine start is planned for March/April and I hope to be flying early summer.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Passey View Post
WoooooW to said performance of said berkut..wonder whut that would do in a Mark IV?
The Aerocomposites website states that CSprop model 2300 is good to 3000rpm and to 310hp, weighs 38 pounds and will cost 11,100. + 675 for a spinner kit. 3 choices of actuation and etc... thats a lot of shamoolians.
If I win the Monte Hall "Lets make a deal" cash doorprize .....
Man I would like to do this to a Cozy....gotta find out how Don likes his...
Craig Catto makes a nice prop for the 540 that is talked about on the Velocity website...linked back to his site. Wonder about that...?
I believe the only pusher prop they make is the 3350p at $14,400 and $1050 for the spinner and 50 lbs. thats abit more then the last time I checked with them. I asked them a few years ago about a two blade pusher but the did not have plans to build one then. they did not see a market for it to justify the testing program ,maybe that has changed. Catto makes a good prop for the pusher 540s. the take off roll is going to be a little longer but not any different then any of the 360 powered cozys that are flying. maybe a bit less. dont be mislead into thinking a CSP will make a cozy into a STOL aircraft. they still need at least 2600 ft runway to be safe.
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This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2006, 03:04 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrellK View Post
Hi Dennis,


The second reason I went with Aerocomposites is the fact that MT required an MT governor. I already had a Mc Cauley governor on my engine which is compatible with the Aerocomposites prop. .
That one I have not heard yet. did MT tell you that? I have worked on 3 aircraft with MT props that all have McCauley Governors. one is a pusher and the others are tractors. one certified and one exp.
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This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2006, 05:38 PM
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JonC JonC is offline
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One thing you guys need to remember is when you go hydraulic CSP, you need a prop govenor... As DarrelK pointed out, these are not cheap... if you are buying a used engine see if you can find one that has it on it already. If not, try to find a used one.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2006, 06:36 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Lynn,
The info I got on the model # and specs was right off Aerocomposites website and was for a two blade prop[hence the 38 pounds].. As for becoming a STOL... I did read that Don H feels his Mark IV take off performance is GREATLY enhanced...it leaps off the ground. Both he and Keith S. are continually impressed. Don has said that Nat approved of his 2300 pound gross weight due to his use of a CSP...
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:47 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonC View Post
One thing you guys need to remember is when you go hydraulic CSP, you need a prop govenor... As DarrelK pointed out, these are not cheap... if you are buying a used engine see if you can find one that has it on it already. If not, try to find a used one.
they can be had for a $ 1000 and almost 540s use them in cert. aircraft. should get an engine with it on the prop side not assc. case side as it will hit the firewall.
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This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Passey View Post
Lynn,
The info I got on the model # and specs was right off Aerocomposites website and was for a two blade prop[hence the 38 pounds].. As for becoming a STOL... I did read that Don H feels his Mark IV take off performance is GREATLY enhanced...it leaps off the ground. Both he and Keith S. are continually impressed. Don has said that Nat approved of his 2300 pound gross weight due to his use of a CSP...
you will have to check but I don't think will make it for a pusher.
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Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
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  #13  
Old 12-24-2006, 08:08 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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When they get back to the office next week, I will give them a call. I looked at their website On Saturday.
You're right, I have not seen any 2 bladed CSP's on any canard...
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2006, 10:52 AM
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DarrellK DarrellK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson View Post
That one I have not heard yet. did MT tell you that? I have worked on 3 aircraft with MT props that all have McCauley Governors. one is a pusher and the others are tractors. one certified and one exp.
MT, Velocity and other Velocity builders have told me this. And not that I've seen that many, but every Velocity I've ever seen with an MT prop on it has an MT governor. The ony thing I could never get answered is why?
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2006, 11:45 AM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Riley View Post
There was a Berkut builder named John Andrejeski working in the shop at SMO at the same time Dave was building the bird with the Aercomposites prop.

(BTW, for those who don't know - that airplane has a left turning engine, and a prop made originally for a tractor configuration.)

Anyway, said builder has a Catto 3 blade fixed pitch on his 540 Berkut, and I'm told he both out climbs and out runs Dave's plane.

It's strictly 3rd hand so I don't swear to it.
Thats pretty bizarre....but Craig Catto is pretty talented. Just seems impossible to do BOTH. How does one actuamafactly find out more about this vs that? Anybody with input or a Magnum PI mustache and Hawaiian shirt?
15 grand is some seriousssss coinage and the weight of a CSP vs FP is just another element.....
Oh Yea- Merry Christmas to you one and all![Its 8:30am] I am the first one up since everybody went to sleep late[and nobody under the age of 13 here]..so have a memorable time with those you're with and be generous to those both kind to you and unkind to you. I hope this finds you healthy and truly happy where ever you are, and if not so, may you be blessed with the ability to find THE WAY to change it by seeking and finding...the TRUE spirit of CHRISTMAS.
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