Canard Community Forum  

Go Back   Canard Community Forum > Landing Gear, Wheels, Tires, and Brakes
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-10-2006, 11:52 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 535
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
we need simple, reliable systems in these planes - we are not professional pilots that train, train, train, i am a mere mortal and the more the "plane" plane takes care of, the better.
Just keep in mind that these are experimental systems that the plane is taking care of for you , have not been tested, tested, tested. Therefore you, the TEST pilot still needs to train, train, train and train some more. An Experimental aircraft is allways being flown by a Test pilot. The testing never stops. When you fly one you are not a professional pilot you are a TEST pilot and you better fly better than a professional.
__________________
This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-10-2006, 12:04 PM
MarbleTurtle's Avatar
MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dalton, GA.
Posts: 1,344
Default

AHHH... retracts! Rutanfan, please give details! Specifically how long it took to get them after placing the order.

What about hacking the radar sensors in cars now attached to the cruise control to keep people away from the cars in front of them? I don't know the range.

I'm (slowly ) starting to agree with John that a voice alert is better than a buzzer / light warning alone. After being in a rental wondering "what the @#$%@#$!!! is that warning buzzer for?" while distracted by night and rain.
__________________
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-10-2006, 12:27 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
mplafleur mplafleur is offline
Finally at Chapter 4!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lathrup Village, MI (Metro Detroit)
Posts: 1,203
Default

Rutanfan,

More data!

I'm going to order mine anytime now. How long did you have to wait? etc.
__________________
Michael LaFleur
Turbo Rotary Big EZ Retract
And no trees were harmed or killed in the creating and sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced...
http://banners.wunderground.com/weat...ions/76225.gif
http://banners.wunderground.com/weat...ions/76225.gif
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-10-2006, 12:49 PM
rutanfan rutanfan is offline
Ray V.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Logan, Utah
Posts: 229
Default

It took a while… If my memory serves me right it’s about a year and a half… but it’s not by any means a fair representation. I sent him a down payment and in return he sent me plans, cad drawings, wheel wells, blow down system, and aft trunnion support plates. All within a couple of weeks.

Probably another 12 months went by until I had the remaining funds. I was visiting a friend in San Diego so I dropped by payment, and he said he would try to accommodate me right then if I needed the gear urgently, but he had several people in front of me. I passed and said that I wasn’t at that point in my project yet anyway. About a month ago I started harassing him and said that I needed the gear. Last week he called and said they were shipping.

He also said that he was discouraged with the rate of his machinist, so he has switched to another manufacturer. He also said that he has 5 in stock so if you’re thinking of ordering right now, you’d probably get them fast. Overall I’m very happy with his service and support.

When I used to show people my Wilhelmson nose retract they’d comment on how cool it was (and I agree.) Now several people have seen retractable mains, and they’ve all asked the same thing “Did you make the nose gear yourself. & Are you sure it is big enough.”

If you’ve installed the fixed gear before, and I think Waiter will agree, that the fixed gear are slightly less time consuming (my guess is 20 hrs.) But the retracts are actually easier.
__________________
I think; therefore I am. - Rene Descartes

Last edited by rutanfan : 01-10-2006 at 06:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-10-2006, 05:04 PM
DarrellK's Avatar
DarrellK DarrellK is offline
Building a Velocity XLRG
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Waukesha, WI
Posts: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleTurtle
What about hacking the radar sensors in cars now attached to the cruise control to keep people away from the cars in front of them? I don't know the range.
Hmmmmmm. This sounds interesting.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cruise-control4.htm

It has a 492 foot range. It also sounds expensive.

Needs more research.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-10-2006, 11:50 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 535
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rutanfan
If you’ve installed the fixed gear before, and I think Waiter will agree, that the fixed gear are slightly less time consuming (my guess is 20 hrs.) But the retracts are actually easier.
When you say actually easier, you are not considering the time to plumb the hydraulic, wire the controls, fabricate the gear doors, install the wheel wells, seal the wheel wells from leaking fuel, adjust and test the system, fix the leaking seals because they have been on the plane for so long the seals have cracked, all this just to taxi and find out that the nose strut is not long enough now as JD did not tell you that the gear is longer than before so you let out some pressure and loose some of the strut travel so it will lift off the runway, Then as you finally fly the strut twists ( driving you off the runway just missing the runway lights ) in the support arm because the space age glue used to hlod the alum parts together has broken and it takes JD 6 months to send you a replacement. Been there ,done that. sold that Junk. You are right it only took about 20 hours to put the fixed gear back on.
__________________
This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-11-2006, 12:13 AM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

Don't hold back so much, Lynn. Tell us what you really think!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-11-2006, 12:40 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 535
Default

It is hard not to after spending many hours working with junk that just looks good but is not flyable at least not by this test pilot. The gear system that I am using now is much simpler and many less moving parts. and is gravity for emergency gear down. the other for mentioned system is definitly not and when tested always did not deploy and got stuck in the gear well. with out hydraulic pressure the strut would extend and tire would hang up. It cost you a CO2 cartage every time you test the system. and fills the system with CO2 that needs to be bleed. Ok i will stop here , I could go on all night, so many been theres, tried thats I lost count. so don't get me started.
__________________
This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-11-2006, 08:09 AM
rutanfan rutanfan is offline
Ray V.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Logan, Utah
Posts: 229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
When you say actually easier, you are not considering the time to plumb the hydraulic, wire the controls, fabricate the gear doors, install the wheel wells, seal the wheel wells from leaking fuel, adjust and test the system, fix the leaking seals because they have been on the plane for so long the seals have cracked...
No. I was factoring in all of that. Especially the part about running off the runway. Hell that only took me about a minute.

In all seriousness I haven't installed the hydraulics yet, so I've just estimated the time from here out... Also if you can install the fixed gear in 20 hrs, then you're considerably faster than I.
__________________
I think; therefore I am. - Rene Descartes
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-11-2006, 12:13 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
It is hard not to after spending many hours working with junk that just looks good but is not flyable at least not by this test pilot......... Ok i will stop here , I could go on all night, so many been theres, tried thats I lost count. so don't get me started.
why stop there, what have you seen and what are you flyin and is it available?
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-11-2006, 12:26 PM
MarbleTurtle's Avatar
MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dalton, GA.
Posts: 1,344
Default

I remember talking with one of the GIRRRLS (I think it was Randi ?) about the retracts at RR 2004. One of the (large group of ) men nearby responded with how his gear was junk because it didn't have the internal locking mechanism and his would wobble and collapse after parked for a day or two. He would be happy to sell me his set for a huge discount.

I turned back to her ask her about this and she said that there were problems with the original design. She was very happy about the quality of the product today but not with the delayed delivery and required legal threats to finally receive delivery of everything.

Maybe one of the GIRRRLS will respond here.
__________________
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-11-2006, 01:35 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 535
Default

Ok You ask for it. I'll keep this post positive in an effort to help the ones that have gone with Infinity gear. Brake lines should be no larger than 3/16", 1/8" would be better. the problem is in the bleeding the line are routed up the gear leg to a high point and then down to the master cyl. If the line are to big the air bubble gets traped in the high spot and is near imposible to get out. The brake line has to move up and down with the wheel as the strut moves. this portion of line should be 1/8" braded teflon, the small line helps prevent spongy brakes. there needs to be a retraction method for the line as the strut shortens, the line bends and is in the way during gear retraction. As per JD this is simple and is to be designed by you. The matco brakes he recomends are not the best brakes I Think I would go Grove next time. The gear doors, that JD says are also simple to fabricate, need to fit with some play as the very heavy gear leg moves around a lot from air loads and is pushed back as it goes in the well about 1/4" different from static retraction. also if the leading edge is not lined up completly flush the air loads will hold the leg out about 5 to 6" as the mechical advantage is weak in the retacted position. The gear door panels must stop above the ground enough so they are not ground off if there is a flat tire. the tires will rub on the top of the half fork if you pick the wrong brand of 500 -5 tires, don't remember which ones will work , I will have to look, We tried so many. As for additional gear doors to complete the close out of the wheel well, Your on your own as the system does not include the actuation system for this. I'am trying to keep it positive but its hard.
Also if you have the older gear tubes with the space age glue holding the actuation arm on, they will break loose and the wheel will twist and stear you left or right off the runway, not your choice. I would have JD weld the parts together as we did at our our expense of course. the new welded tubes are not the same dia. and can not be retro fit
So in the end.
Cost of retract gear $5000
Cost of working retract gear $10,000 and 2 year later than it should
Cost of wondering if it will deploy this time as you end a long cross country and it is Dark, windy and raining. and you get only a light for the right gear. the tower is closed for the night and the next closest airport with a tower open, to look at gear to see if it is up or down, is in a class B with tee hash marks around it. PRICELESS
Really. I'm only trying to help keep people safe up there.
__________________
This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-11-2006, 04:49 PM
rutanfan rutanfan is offline
Ray V.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Logan, Utah
Posts: 229
Default

Lynn. Just out of curiosity. In your previous post you mentioned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
The gear system that I am using now is much simpler and many less moving parts. and is gravity for emergency gear down.
It sounds like you’ve designed your own retracts? Is this correct, or am I interpreting it incorrectly. If so, I think a lot of people would be interested with what you did. Did you salvage any of the oleo struts, or did you start from scratch?

Regards.
__________________
I think; therefore I am. - Rene Descartes
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-12-2006, 12:10 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
EVOLUTION EZE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 535
Default

The gear system on my current aircraft is based on the E racer Gear design by Shirl Dickey. I molded the the gear legs with carbon and kevlar as reinforcement. The actuator linkage is a redesign of the Berkut system. the hydraulic pump is an oildyne unit. the electrical system is one switch and two pump relays. gear up and down micro switches ( two on each leg in parallel ) to let you know what is happening. an air speed switch prevents gear up until 100 KTS is reached. gear doors are actuated by a elec. / hydraulic solenoid when both main are up. the nose door is mechanical like many long eze's. Gear up is by hydraulic pressure. Gear down is by hydraulic pressure holding the linkage in overcenter. Emergency down is by dumping the up pressure with a hand operated ball valve and the gear fall down into overcenter and are held there with gas springs. There is also a hand hydraulic pump for gear down in the event of electrical failure. air speed actuated Bitchin betty if below 120KTS and gear is not down. each main gear leg with brakes, wheels , tires, linkage, hyd. actuators is 32 Lbs. nose gear with wheel and tire and all the hydrualic stuff is 12 lbs. hydraulic pump and tubing 13 lbs full of non flammable Dot 5 hydraulic fluid.
__________________
This is my opinion of these facts and only my opinion, your opinion may vary

Lynn Erickson A&P for lets say almost 30 years
Much better with a Dremel than a computer.
What if they gave me choice between a fast computer or a fast plane?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-13-2006, 02:43 AM
James D. "J.D." Newman's Avatar
James D. "J.D." Newman James D. "J.D." Newman is offline
J.D.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: El Cajon, CA (San Diego area)
Posts: 3
Default A factual, and truly positive, post -- SOTW, OJAAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
Ok You ask for it. I'll keep this post positive in an effort to help the ones that have gone with Infinity gear.
I don't know who you are, I've never met you, you are not one of my landing gear customers, and you've never contacted me with your questions. Yet you talk as if you've actually installed a set of my Retractable Main Landing Gear and know everything about my gear, but it's obvious you haven't and don't. So I'm not sure how and why you are coming up with all this misinformation. Neither does Bill Oertel, whose plane (and the plane he's working on for a customer who bought someones project), you are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
Brake lines should be no larger than 3/16", 1/8" would be better. the problem is in the bleeding the line are routed up the gear leg to a high point and then down to the master cyl. If the line are to big the air bubble gets traped in the high spot and is near imposible to get out.
Bleeding brake line issues are the same for most all retract aircraft. But the builder of Bill's plane did things differently and did not follow my installation
manual, so Bill has had troubles bleeding his brake lines until he found a pump that moves several gph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
The brake line has to move up and down with the wheel as the strut moves. this portion of line should be 1/8" braded teflon, the small line helps prevent spongy brakes. there needs to be a retraction method for the line as the strut shortens, the line bends and is in the way during gear retraction. As per JD this is simple and is to be designed by you.
Yeap, it is easy.
Please take a moment to thouroughly read our 67+ page Main Retract Installation Manual, and watch the ~3.2 hour installation video. This is covered in the installation manual and video. When properly installed, there are no problems. I've been heavily involved flying and working in aviation all my life, so please feel free to call me any afternoon CA time if you ever have any questions about something you do not understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
The matco brakes he recomends are not the best brakes I Think I would go Grove next time.
While Cleveland and Grove make wonderful products, Matco makes the only brakes that have enough stopping energy per FAR Part 23.735 to stop our high performance canard planes.

But as I mentioned, the tremendous stopping power of the MATCO's in the 5.00 x 5 size wheel and brake world is NOT the only reason why we chose them for our Infinity 1 aircraft, and our landing gear system needs: 1) we saved about 1.25+" in overall wheel width translating to thinner wheel wells and fitting better in the retrofit aircraft strakes (this also means thinner wheel pants if you still have the fiberglass fixed main gear, meaning a little less drag and DN pitching moment from the wheel pants);

2) the brake ‘lives' within the diameter of the rims, so no brake parts hang below the rim to be ground off during a blown tire take-off or landing, and maybe ending up in a brake and / or hydraulic fire;

3) also, the MATCO three puck brake and rotor system can absorb more energy and dissipate heat better. So, the brakes will stop you expeditiously during maximum effort braking without getting hot, fading, eating up the brake shoes and warping the brake disc; and canard aircraft still with fixed fiberglass main gear -- no more melting the fiberglass wheel pants and /or struts, and / or catching on fire, and no more hacking up the back side of your fiberglass fixed main gear strut for brake installation;

4) the brake shoes, also, last much, much longer saving $$$'s and requiring less maintenance, paying for themselves in a short time, and in many ways;

5) we can use DOT 5.0 brake fluid, which can be purchased anywhere, unlike MIL-5606 hydraulic fluid, which also requires it to be flushed yearly because it absorbs water causing internal brake system corrosion -- DOT 5.0 does NOT absorb water, DOT 5.0 has a MUCH higher Flash Point, you can get it anywhere, and DOT 5.0 is cheaper;

6) they are pretty, too :-) .


Usually, 99+% of any brake issue is an installation problem. But Matco does have a new owner for the last 4 years this past Nov. who has made improvments to a wonderful product that Mike Melville has used since 1992, and is used on Space Ship 1. Contact them if you have any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
The gear doors, that JD says are also simple to fabricate, . . .
True. No two strakes are alike. Therefore, the builder must make them. This is outlined in the installation manual and video. It's easy for the average builder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
. . . need to fit with some play as the very heavy gear leg moves around a lot from air loads and is pushed back as it goes in the well about 1/4" different from static retraction.
True. All landing gear flex/move, and they should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
also if the leading edge is not lined up completly flush the air loads will hold the leg out about 5 to 6" as the mechical advantage is weak in the retacted position.
True (I just found this out from Bill tonight). If you have a poorly built and/or attached gear door where the forward edge of the gear door lip hangs down and doesn't fit properly (like the customers plane he's working on does), the gear door acts as an air scoop, building up hydraulic pressure prematurely, causing the UP Pressure Switch to shut off the hydraulic pump before that strut is all the way UP. This would happen with most any retract gear.

The operation of this system is covered in the installation manual. Please take a moment to familiarize yourself.

And Bill is going to re-make this poorly made gear door.

Also, Bill (or anyone with our Main Retracts) could add the UP Gear Switch in series with the UP Pressure Switch. So the gear MUST be physically UP before the UP Pressure Switch can shut off the pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
The gear door panels must stop above the ground enough so they are not ground off if there is a flat tire.
This is NOT how I designed it! The builder did this on his own, making the inner gear door as part of the main gear door. How I said to do the gear doors is outlined in the installation manual and video. Please take a moment to read and watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
the tires will rub on the top of the half fork if you pick the wrong brand of 500 -5 tires, don't remember which ones will work , I will have to look, We tried so many.
After I designed the original landing gear 17+ years ago and delivered them, unknown to me, the recommended Michelin Air tires diameter grew a little. Hence, the seam and 'whiskers' of the brand new Michelin Air tire can rub a little at higher than 65 knot LE speeds on the top inside surface of the half fork. But after a few very high speed taxi tests, the seam and whiskers go away, so this becomes a non issue. You can switch to the smaller diameter Michelin Aviators, too.

I have since modified the half fork 10+ years ago so that this can not happen again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
As for additional gear doors to complete the close out of the wheel well, Your on your own as the system does not include the actuation system for this.
You need to know the history of the 'gear door saga'. You should have called me first.

"In the beginning . . .", builders wanted to come up with their own gear door and mounting bracket ideas. And, as I mentioned, since no two strakes are alike, I did not make the gear doors -- I still don't. But, I published in 1993 how Bill Theeringer implimented my gear door idea in my manual. You can also see it operate in the video. He did a very clever job using a spring loaded door -- it works GREAT! Info -- I plan on coming up with a gear door bracket later this year (I'm toying with a few concepts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson
I'am trying to keep it positive but its hard.
Also if you have the older gear tubes with the space age glue holding the actuation arm on, they will break loose and the wheel will twist and stear you left or right off the runway, not your choice.
This is not true. This 3M adhesive used in aircraft and recommended by engineers works fine -- I've tested it to destruction. I eventually changed back to weldling because the adhesive process was too labor intensive. I now Dip Braze -- it's as much as 20% stronger than welding (not Braze, Dip Braze).

If you're referring to when Bill went off into the weeds, this was caused by a stuck brake. It had nothing to do with my main gear.

Here's more facts about Bill's plane:
This eventually happened to Oertel's 4 place canard plane that he bought as salvage from an insurance company. This plane was drug out of the ocean through the mud with chains wrapped around our main gear after the then owner taxied it into the ocean at near full throttle (this plane was damaged twice before, too -- a long, short story). I told Bill when he informed me that he had bought the salvage to keep an eye on the gear because no one knew if there was any internal damage. Bill flew the plane for a quite a while (a few years?) before this problem occured. I fixed the gear for Bill for free, even though he is not my customer. In fact, I've helped him and answered questions many times about many things besides my Main Retract Gear. If you did not buy the plans from Burt, or Puffers plans, they will not provide builder support.

(concluded in the next post)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.