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View Poll Results: How many have had a gear up landing
one 8 14.55%
more than one 0 0%
None 15 27.27%
not flying yet 32 58.18%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:41 AM
Jerry Schneider Jerry Schneider is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post
the last cozy flier that made a statement like this, promptly went out and had a gear up landing!
I like to call this type of happening "God's Humility Check". And it's not limited to aircraft.

On subs, I've seen guys say "I'll never blow sh*tters on myself". Then do just that while holding the "Sanitary Tank is Pressurized" sign in their free hand, and opening the ball valve to flush with the other. Oh yes.... Right in the face.
Priceless.
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  #32  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust View Post
the last cozy flier that made a statement like this, promptly went out and had a gear up landing!
You guys are way to quick to criticize. This guy is flying R/g F-15E and a Velocity R/G. He has gone through a level of flight training I'm never going to even approach. Has much more flight time and is a much more disiplined pilot than most of us.

I'll bet he never touches down or lifts off without doing his cheacklist. The checklist is usually the point of failure ......... not mechanical failure.
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  #33  
Old 09-04-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter View Post
As SOF (Supervisor of Flying) one of the duties was to sit out on the end of the runway with a pair of Binoculars, and check the gear down of every plane that is landing.

Maybe, about once a year, the SOF will make the call; "Bangi 25, check gear down"

AND THEN THEREs

One of the SOPs is to check gear down on the base leg to final, and make the call:

"Bangi 25 base leg, gear down".

Then when you look, Bangi 25 doesn't have the gear down!!!!!! He swears he followed the checklist and seen three green.

I could go ON and ON and ON.

Waiter
No argument there, Waiter. I like Al Wicks solution as a back-up safety measure.
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  #34  
Old 09-04-2007, 12:08 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
You guys are way to quick to criticize. This guy is flying R/g F-15E and a Velocity R/G. He has gone through a level of flight training I'm never going to even approach. Has much more flight time and is a much more disiplined pilot than most of us.

I'll bet he never touches down or lifts off without doing his cheacklist. The checklist is usually the point of failure ......... not mechanical failure.
"Quick to criticize"?... I don'y dounut doubt his professionalism...only his swagger around our dining room table.

I think Waiters past regarding spotters to verify that the gear is down is telling. The guys that I knew who flew military all had checklists. IMHO- You're flying goofy if you don't use a checklist...but it still happens.

oh live and let live.
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  #35  
Old 09-04-2007, 04:54 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

The favorite thing in the RAF was when a guy was a bit slow letting go the transmit button after the finals call. What you'd often hear was "Papa 95 finals, three greens, oh sh." as the pilot called ..... then looked.
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  #36  
Old 09-04-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
"Papa 95 finals, three greens, oh sh."
Ah, So its not just us bloks that do this.

Waiter
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  #37  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:32 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
You guys are way to quick to criticize. This guy is flying R/g F-15E and a Velocity R/G. He has gone through a level of flight training I'm never going to even approach. Has much more flight time and is a much more disiplined pilot than most of us.

I'll bet he never touches down or lifts off without doing his cheacklist. The checklist is usually the point of failure ......... not mechanical failure.
First, check lists don't fail but pilots fail to read them. the military trains and trains and then trains some more so procedures become almost automatic. thats why they have the SOF at the approch end of the runway looking for the extended gear. you would not beleive the number of times they have saved the taxpayers a lot of money. but if you think the FAA tower is going to save your butt, you are kidding yourself.
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  #38  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:06 PM
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TMann TMann is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson View Post
First, check lists don't fail but pilots fail to read them. the military trains and trains and then trains some more so procedures become almost automatic. thats why they have the SOF at the approch end of the runway looking for the extended gear. you would not beleive the number of times they have saved the taxpayers a lot of money. but if you think the FAA tower is going to save your butt, you are kidding yourself.
Don't know where that came from. The point I'm making is that there are a couple of guys here on the forum that are consistantly quick on the trigger and start bashing someone without doing any research and without any purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Erickson View Post
Fly a retract and you will understand for EVER.
I have never met a pilot of a retractable aircraft that thinks he cannot forget. EVER.
Did you think to look at the fact that the guy is flying an F-15E for a living and has a velocity R/G to boot?

We ALL have retracts.
Who's fault is it when the nose gear isn't deployed?
When someone leaves the fuel cap off ...... how are the retracts to blame?
Shouldn't pilots grow up and be responsible for themselves?

I was on a skydiving demo team for several years.
The creed was when you leave the door you are responsible to save your own butt.

Same same same.
I'm sorry if somebody can't do a preflight or a checklist.
If they can't do that, what the hell are they doing in an airplane?

That's my last word on the subject.
You may now continue to bash our men in uniform.
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  #39  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:47 PM
Jeff122670 Jeff122670 is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

copy i know how to get the forum going...

but i stick with my statements....

if you cant handle retracts, get out of the retract business....

Jeff
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  #40  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Jeff122670 Jeff122670 is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

regarding the the SOF statement...

shouldnt you be more concerned about where you are sending the CSAR forces to recover your pilot that ejected from his Fighting Falcon, instead of checking to make sure his gear is down......

ha
ha

Jeff
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  #41  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:46 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff122670 View Post
if you cant handle retracts, get out of the retract business....
Folks that are intolerant of mistakes made by others should expect no sympathy when they screw up themselves.

I suppose that the pilots of the B-1 bomber that landed gear up a year or so ago, after a million dollars worth of US taxpayer funded training, should have never been pilots?

If those guys can screw up, then ANYONE can screw up.

Do you think that you can predict, beforehand, who will screw up every once in a while, and who won't? It's very easy after the fact to point fingers with 20/20 hindsight.

Given the fact that people using checklists make mistakes on a regular basis, relying on them to the exclusivity of other assistance is foolhardy. If you got rid of all the pilots who had ever made a mistake, Jeff would be the only one in the air.
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  #42  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:05 AM
Ron Springer Ron Springer is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
The point I'm making is that there are a couple of guys here on the forum that are consistantly quick on the trigger and start bashing someone without doing any research and without any purpose.
The research is being done. Part of the research is this poll which currently says that 40% of the flyers that responded have had gear up landings. I believe Al Wick did a poll with a much larger audience and arrived at 60% having done a gear up landing. So, when somebody starts calling ~50% of the canard pilots out there idiots, then it results in a rather quick response!
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  #43  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Springer View Post
The research is being done. Part of the research is this poll which currently says that 40% of the flyers that responded have had gear up landings. I believe Al Wick did a poll with a much larger audience and arrived at 60% having done a gear up landing. So, when somebody starts calling ~50% of the canard pilots out there idiots, then it results in a rather quick response!
The stupid part Ron, is suggesting that an F-15 pilot will 'see the light' should he ever fly a retractable gear airplane.
That's just my opinion.
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  #44  
Old 09-05-2007, 03:07 AM
Ron Springer Ron Springer is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
The stupid part Ron, is suggesting that an F-15 pilot will 'see the light' should he ever fly a retractable gear airplane.
That's just my opinion.
Anyone is capable of not following a checklist, and it only takes once to make a bad day. Here is an example of a highly trained pilot failing to follow a checklist in a Cozy Mark IV due to a distraction. Jim Patton was a chief test pilot for NASA for 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozy Newsletter #44
Last April, on the way back from Sun and Fun, we stopped at Crystal River FL
to meet Jim for the first time, and I took him for a ride in the Mark IV and
checked him out dual. But when he came here, he had to fly it solo. On his
first familiarization flight, the radio went dead just as he was readying for
take off. He turned around, opened the canopy, and was preparing to taxi back
when it came on again and appeared to be OK. This was just enough of a
distraction for him to close, but not lock, the canopy. Shortly after take
off, when he was about 3 miles out, the canopy popped up, but the safety latch
caught it. I was listening in on the radio and heard him call in for a
straight-in approach. On the way back he hit some bumpy air, the safety catch
jiggled loose, and the canopy opened all the way. The gas spring slowed it
down so that it didn't rip anything loose, but just stabilized in the fully
open position. The air blast removed Jim's cap, glasses, and headset, but he
didn't lose his cool. He discovered that the aircraft was fully controllable;
he did not attempt to close the canopy, but instead concentrated on flying the
airplane. He flew the airplane back and landed it with the canopy fully open!
We couldn't believe that there was absolutely no damage and that the Mark IV
could be flown and landed with the canopy fully open. This was a most
important finding! We found Jim's hat, glasses and headset in the back seat.
After we thoroughly inspected the canopy and hardware, determined that there
was no damage, and got over the excitement and shock, Jim went back up again
for an uneventful familiarization flight.
So, do I think ANYONE can fail to follow a checklist, even one of the most experienced pilots out there? Yes!
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  #45  
Old 09-05-2007, 05:58 AM
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Waiter Waiter is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Jeff122670,

Do you fly a complex retractable?

Waiter
I'm sorry, I must have missed you answer?

Waiter
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