Canard Community Forum  

Go Back   Canard Community Forum > Firewall Backward and Forward
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 06-27-2005, 08:50 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

Quote:
I told Ed Anderson my new nickname for you was "Beta Tester", because you seem to be good at finding failure modes in new products.
That's fine, but notice that he's WAYYYY ahead of me in glider time. Yes, I've had issues to contend with, and I've broken a few minor parts here and there but so far (touch longeron) no dead stick time at all. None. I've always flown home and taxied back to the hangar.

Quote:
i do not want lycoming users to shy away from this forum because of the continual trashing they get, not between the lines, but out and out stupid blasting.
Ah. I see. While living in a "don't do what I do - do what I say" world, you want us to stop giving real examples of costs as they actually applied to us, and avoid discussing actual Lycoming engine problems our friends have experienced ..... so as not to scare anyone.

I don't consider it "bashing" when you cite REAL examples rather than generalize. The are MANY of these horror stories in just our little Canard community. Carl Denk with his multiple cracked cylinders. Jim Sower with his Mattituck engine he still can't fly after many thousands of $ spent. The poor guy (I forget his name) who deadsticked into Farmingdale LI, the guy who lost his engine over the pacific, Rich Hughes - engine failure on approach to ISP. That's just off the top of my head in the past year or so. Let's see what kind of reliability we have on Subs and rotarys after 40 years of testing.

Having said ALL that, I agree - anyone who wants to just build a Cozy and go fly - install the plans engine - but spend the money and get a good one. Ideally get a new one like a Superior or Mattituck, then as MT says, go get your teeth glued in real good.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-27-2005, 09:47 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm
I try not to post much here anymore, I feel like an outsider. I am not a Lycoming basher. I am not an EAA basher. I don't have much in common with this crew. But I do enjoy the comedy!

-Norm

glad you enjoy and altho you don't post much - each is well thought out and appreciated
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:20 PM
Nathan Gifford Nathan Gifford is offline
Nathan Gifford
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tickfaw, LA
Posts: 897
Default

One of the things I forgot to add in my earlier post was whether you can get insurance on your bird if its got an alternative engine in it. You might get liability, but insurance on the craft itself might not be easily secured.
__________________
Nathan Gifford
Tickfaw, LA USA
Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330
Better Still --> Chapter 9
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:25 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

Well thought out is right!

Quote:
Now, couple expensive engines with your typical penny pinching homebuilders. These guys will take a junk engine out of a swamp boat and go flying. Engines of unkown hours and history, pieced together and put back into the air. Engines from wrecked airplanes or pieced together from eBay acquisitions.
There I think you've hit the root of the problem. This compliments my advice of getting a new engine and, ideally, I'd add, have a good A&P maintain it. Then you can attain the reliability of the certified fleet. A used engine with undocumented history on, for example, the cylinders is just asking for trouble.

Just a couple of small corrections, though - you don't need an exhaust system (at least not a muffler) if you go with a turbo. Also, the Renesis is 10:1 compression ratio and many are not recommending boosting it other than for normalization - ie sea level power at altitude.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:42 PM
Nathan Gifford Nathan Gifford is offline
Nathan Gifford
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tickfaw, LA
Posts: 897
Default

I can tell you John's plane is not that loud even at full power.
__________________
Nathan Gifford
Tickfaw, LA USA
Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330
Better Still --> Chapter 9
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:50 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Buying from a reputable source is also a good idea - my engine has a written guarantee and complete log books
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-27-2005, 11:37 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
Flying TurboRotaryCozyIV
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KWST
Posts: 3,836
Default

Quote:
One of the things I forgot to add in my earlier post was whether you can get insurance on your bird if its got an alternative engine in it. You might get liability, but insurance on the craft itself might not be easily secured.
After a bit of battleing with Falcon I was offered hull coverage. Wasn't cheap, but it was available. A lot of this depends on pilot experience. When looking for a quote don't take no for an answer. Respond with - ok - so what will it take? How many hours in type? etc. etc. Inspection of the plane by who? etc. I talked with a VP at Falcon and he worked to get the quote. It can be done.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-28-2005, 11:46 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleTurtle
Wrong! I'd bet the Chevrolet LS1 V8 is more reliable!
On another forum, it was noted that LS-1 has completed several endurance tests of 2500 hours at WOT. I have doubts if any cert engine would run WOT 2700 rpm at SL for 2500 hours straight. Let's not forget the Sube 100,000 km. WOT: http://www.subaru-global.com/about/h...ml#subhead-001
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-28-2005, 12:06 PM
Nathan Gifford Nathan Gifford is offline
Nathan Gifford
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tickfaw, LA
Posts: 897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
... Let's not forget the Sube 100,000 km. WOT: http://www.subaru-global.com/about/h...ml#subhead-001
Yeah, but that was a shade less than 448 hours.
__________________
Nathan Gifford
Tickfaw, LA USA
Cozy Mk IV Plans Set 1330
Better Still --> Chapter 9
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-28-2005, 12:25 PM
Waiter's Avatar
Waiter Waiter is offline
LongEZ-RG
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northwestern Ohio
Posts: 1,096
Default

When I was in Tahkli Thailand in the early 70's. We used APU's for our shop power, Our Avionics shop ran 24/7 as did the 400hz generators. These things ran for months at 2600rpm, they would come out three times a day and put gas in them, and once a week they would shut down to change oil.

We always had two of them, one running, and one spare. I seem to remember using the spare once or twice in my 9 month trip.

The generators were powered by a Lycoming O-290

I'd bet the most reliable engine is one that is never run, and the second most reliable is the one that runs at one power setting, and never changes.

Waiter
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-28-2005, 12:41 PM
Dust's Avatar
Dust Dust is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 7,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
I have doubts if any cert engine would run WOT 2700 rpm at SL for 2500 hours straight.
they test them that way at the continental factory on a regular basis
__________________
Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-28-2005, 02:04 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter
When I was in Tahkli Thailand in the early 70's. We used APU's for our shop power, Our Avionics shop ran 24/7 as did the 400hz generators. These things ran for months at 2600rpm, they would come out three times a day and put gas in them, and once a week they would shut down to change oil.

We always had two of them, one running, and one spare. I seem to remember using the spare once or twice in my 9 month trip.

The generators were powered by a Lycoming O-290

Waiter
Well if this was at WOT, I eat my words!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-28-2005, 07:25 PM
argoldman argoldman is offline
Rich
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: chicago area
Posts: 481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Staten
How about mate that certified lycoming engine with a certified prop, and only have to go 25 hours. If that particular engine and prop are approved in some certified airplane somewhere, they qualify for the shortened phase one.

Dave

A question to ponder

Although 25 hours are required for a certified engine in combination with a certified prop FOR THAT ENGINE, the approval for the 25 hrs is up to the inspector (perhaps a lot of begging and pleading would help) since he/she might question the fact that the installation is a pusher, not a tractor and reject it on those grounds.

any thoughts??

Wedding is done and was great. I couldn't help looking at my, now, daughter-in-law's veil and wondering what kind of strength characteristics it would have if saturated with epoxy

Back to glassing and ruining clothes
__________________
CANARDLY CONTAIN MYSELF
Rich
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-28-2005, 09:58 PM
bferrell's Avatar
bferrell bferrell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by argoldman
A question to ponder

Although 25 hours are required for a certified engine in combination with a certified prop FOR THAT ENGINE, the approval for the 25 hrs is up to the inspector (perhaps a lot of begging and pleading would help) since he/she might question the fact that the installation is a pusher, not a tractor and reject it on those grounds.

any thoughts??
My local inspector told me that a IO540 and a Catto would get a 25HR requirement from him, which I would have thought was a stretch, but he's the man....

B
__________________
Brett Ferrell
Cincinnati, OH
www.velocityxl.com www.eaa974.com
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-28-2005, 10:12 PM
MarbleTurtle's Avatar
MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dalton, GA.
Posts: 1,344
Default

Well I certainly try not to bash the Lycomings... I have two uncles who are/were crop dusters and they would give me the mother of all wedgies for even thinking about alternative engines.

I just want a smooth engine I can work on myself... ie, tear down, test, replace parts. I can't find anything smooth with the certified engines (that will fit) unless you count the Cozy Jet. That doesn't mean Lexus smooth... can't spin the 40 pounds of dead wood out back without thumping a little air. But the 4 banger Lyco's definately fail to please.

Money. Anyone looking at alternative engines who says they are not considering the price benefit is a big fat honking liar! For me its a matter of value. For roughly the same price as a mid-hour Lyco 360, I can get a stronger, newer, smoother alternative. That may be a LS1 V8, or it may be a 2 rotor turbo... jury is still out on that one.

As for trying to scare off those who want to use certified engines... I think most of us just like to throw out options to those who may have never considered the alternatives. The few doing the bashing... well, lets just say I don't see them flying yet. They may yet regret not having a more conciliatory toungue.
__________________
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.