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  #16  
Old 03-02-2006, 03:02 PM
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karoliina karoliina is offline
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Kate will develop the board, it is no problem for her.
Yes, the components are all ball-grid arrays and may require multi-layered
circuit board. That is no problem either. Kate used to do embedded electronics devices for living, like MPC5200 boards, but because of the small market in Finland, her business didn't go well and she decided to get rid of it. However, she continues to design boards as a kind of hobby. She uses some subcontractors that do the circuit boards in a factory, there is no hand-soldering involved. Kate's circuit boards are usually so densely packed that not a normal mortal being could even do anything to them with soldering iron. Ok, Kate is not a normal electronics hobbyist and she can do something to them by hand, she uses microscope to look the board and do modifications, with a 24G needle (she had to once dig a hole of so small diameter that it was not possible to see with bare eyes if it had penetrated the first layer in the board - and she had to be careful to not dig too much since the board was a 8-layer board if I am not completely mistaken...)...

I am by myself quite newbie with electronics (I am more software oriented) and don't personally have very clear picture so far how to deal with the gyro-box, but Kate is a guru, and I am sure she can do it (actually I don't have slightest doubts on that) .
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2006, 03:18 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Just a question that I am concerned about.
Is the new Dynon D-100 EFIS equipped with a night approved internal gyro type-device or just accelerometers? The question occured on Marcs list about it not being approved for night flight or maybe that was the D-10?
I love that 7" screen! I wonder if theye are coming out with a 7" screen GPS/moving map in the next year or 2???
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2006, 03:52 AM
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Any EFIS that works has gyro, EFIS can not be done without gyro, with only accelerometers it is impossible. I am sure Dynon has gyro or then it does
not work at all. Attitude is not possible to calculate from accelerometers because
otherwise you would be able to replace artificial horizon with ball (every pilot knows that). The attitude indication in EFIS would not work at all day, night, VMC or IMC if there would be no gyro in it.

With accelerometers it is possible to measure other things than the attitude, but NOT attitude. Burt Rutan used Dynon D10A in SpaceShipOne, so if he approved it, I am sure it works.

At least in Finland the night approval requires certification (EASA form 1) and it has nothing to do with the internal implementation of EFIS or any other instrument. I would not approve any attitude indicator without gyro to ANY USE, day or night, such things would be completely useless trash, as useless as our Hauppauge digital-tv-receiver box for computer that has never worked.
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2006, 06:59 AM
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I still think this product is at least worth consideration:
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.p...p=1&itemid=493

Other products that do the same thing cost $800-$2000, but this is only $320. For small production runs, figure $40-$80 for the PCB, some fee for population, and $100-$150 for parts, and you're not saving much re-inventing the wheel. The whole thing is packed pretty well - 2x2x1 - and only weighs 29g. They even provide software.

<shrug> Sometimes the fun IS doing it yourself, but to me the price point and functionality of this product looks perfect.
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  #20  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:40 AM
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This appears to use Mems sensors. The last time I looked at those, there was a continuous drift problem that had to be accounted for in the programming of the display unit. I don't know if that is still the case.

The price of digital AI's now are so cheep, I no longer have the desire to build my own. But I still plan on building my own moving map with terrane awareness. NASA has full detail 30 meter resolution satellite radar data files in 1 degree grids that are public domain. They even have 3 meter resolution... but I'm not sure I'm supposed to have those files.

Moving map systems with terrain awareness are still expensive... but if they come down as quickly as the AI's then I'll chuck this project as well.
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  #21  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:17 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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Was said:--> "Is the new Dynon D-100 EFIS equipped with ... approved internal gyro type-device or just accelerometers? The question occured on Marcs list about it not being approved <snip>."

-----> The responder (Matt Bunch) on the Cozy List was addressing the age old question of what constitutes a gyro. Must it have a rotating mass or can it be a solid state device? The FAA clarified a few years ago that a gyro is any device that gives the pilot the information required. As Matt Bunch eluded to, there are many FSDO and DAR types who have not re-educated themselves and have not kept up with the times.
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2006, 10:37 AM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Thanks Wayne. It must be a solid state dvice as it is not a rotating mass gyro device and there is where the other peoples questions came into play as to its acceptability with the FSDO fellows.
Oh, and thanks for the beating Karolina. I AM an idiot. My wife lets me know it all the time.
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  #23  
Old 03-03-2006, 06:03 PM
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Sorry Dennis, I did not mean anything against you...
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  #24  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarbleTurtle
Moving map systems with terrain awareness are still expensive... but if they come down as quickly as the AI's then I'll chuck this project as well.
Have you seen the latest G4 units from Blue Mountain? They look pretty slick.

http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/
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  #25  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:12 PM
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Folks,

Have you seen the OOPPPSS! ad by Blue Mountain? It's in the March 2006 of Kit Planes, page 5, EFIS/Lite G4 with terrain etc for $2795. It was not supposed to be released until Greg unveiled them at Sun n Fun next month.

Bob
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  #26  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1286
Folks,

Have you seen the OOPPPSS! ad by Blue Mountain? It's in the March 2006 of Kit Planes, page 5, EFIS/Lite G4 with terrain etc for $2795. It was not supposed to be released until Greg unveiled them at Sun n Fun next month.

Bob
Thats exactly the ones I'm referring to - the G4 units...
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  #27  
Old 03-03-2006, 11:08 PM
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he heh heh heh - thats the one they subbed out for the 3 we had orderred heh heh heh
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2006, 12:22 AM
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The most interesting things are what the kids in college are doing in UAV utilizing MEMS stuff. Check it out.

A gyro is a gyro whether a spinning disk, oscillating disk or compensated beam. What they all emit is an error term from reference.

Cost per axis is 40us for the sensor chip(name your tech). The compensation software for thermal and other errors is advancing(check with the kids).

By the time my airframe is finished and I am working on the last 1% the EFIS technology will be a walk in the park.
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2006, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcoleman
By the time my airframe is finished and I am working on the last 1% the EFIS technology will be a walk in the park.
At the rate a lot of us are going by the time we finish our airframes GPS based auto-land systems will be in the hands of GA.

Unlike the mechanical systems, GA avionics seem to be advancing at an amazing rate. Satellite up/downlinks, LNAV/LPV GPS precision approaches, realtime weather in the cockpit without a radar system. Not to mention the large variety of EFIS systems available cert'd and non-cert'd.

I half expect to see a fly-by-wire canard being built by the time mine is flying.
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2007, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: DIY-EFIS

This deal will last just one day (and until they run out of stock), but Woot has the Nokia 770 tablet that Karoliina is using, on sale today for $129.

-- Len
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