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  #16  
Old 07-28-2004, 02:31 AM
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Steve parkins Steve parkins is offline
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Default and here it is

Sorry i took the liberty of nameing your new plan but here is the proto type at 2000 feet and doing well....18" wider, and 3 feet longer, and i added a 20b
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2004, 08:30 AM
Zubi Baru Zubi Baru is offline
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Found this, which might be a better reference for what you guys are trying to do...

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  #18  
Old 07-28-2004, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
At that width, one 20b per wing and maybe a center one too should do it. You drew a really big plane, looks to me like a cabin class twin turbo
You guys are funny...

Seriously, with one 20b or two 13b's I have the engines with more than enough horse power needed to make my "cabin class" plans built aircraft.

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  #19  
Old 07-28-2004, 05:50 PM
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I really am serious, more engine = more fuel. 300 hp or 350 hp burn LOTS of fuel and the strake just won't hold what you are talking about. currently the fuel capicity is about 56 gals, i moved the inside rib and maybe i got 4 gals, maybe. I'm going to burn say 17 gals on climb and 10 or so on cruise.

you are gonna burn twice or more than that, you are talking about a BIG aero plane. Going from a tight 2+2 to a 6+ is a HUGE diference

You might have to add fuel tanks on the inside of the plane
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2004, 06:44 PM
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When some people look at a Cozy IV their objections are:

1. I want more space
2. I want a twin
3. I want more speed.

If we're going to go to all this trouble I think the sixZ should deal with all three objections. Make it a twin 13B, 6 seat, and look at what Berkut did to get a higher vne. It should probably be pressurized too.
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  #21  
Old 07-28-2004, 08:03 PM
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I agree....I thought about pressurization but it entails more fancy engineering....maybe someday.
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2004, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
When some people look at a Cozy IV their objections are:

1. I want more space
2. I want a twin
3. I want more speed.

If we're going to go to all this trouble I think the sixZ should deal with all three objections. Make it a twin 13B, 6 seat, and look at what Berkut did to get a higher vne. It should probably be pressurized too.
I like this direction. I completely agree. Do you think two 13Bs at 280hp apiece will do the trick? I am not one who needs a twin if one 20b will do, but I like the idea. Making it pressurized is a nice touch.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2004, 07:52 AM
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You're gonna need a big prop to push that thing.

One engine - one big honkin' prop

Two engines - two regular props.
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2004, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
You're gonna need a big prop to push that thing.
Good point. Another reason for having two engines is that you need something "to take you to the scene of the crash"

If only turbines were cheaper....
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  #25  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
Another reason for having two engines is that you need something "to take you to the scene of the crash"
Alright I am convinced, if this is going to be a family plane two engines will make it safer right? Plus I can add a cargo area where the engine was...
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  #26  
Old 07-29-2004, 10:26 AM
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Wapati8,

I just noticed you are in Austin. I live in Houston (and it is home) but my heart and MANY fine college/fraternity memories are in the Texas Hill Country. I graduated from Texas State in San Marcos. As a matter of fact, our yearly trek to Gruen is coming up in a couple of weeks.

If you want to visit a project (Velocity SE with 13bt) feel free to give me a call. I am between Hobby and Ellington Field. Just FWI.

All the best,

Chris
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  #27  
Old 07-29-2004, 12:42 PM
ShaleDC ShaleDC is offline
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Can someone show me the "13B at 280 hp"--isn't the baseline 13B rated for 160 hp?

If you need that much power I'd make sure you have a good plan for reliably boosting the hp before building the airframe.
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  #28  
Old 07-29-2004, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapati8
Alright I am convinced, if this is going to be a family plane two engines will make it safer right? Plus I can add a cargo area where the engine was...
I prefer a single, unless they are turbo props. Most light twins lose 1/2 power and 90% performance on the loss of an engine

90%

1 knowingly flying from good to bad weather
2 flying foolishly, buzzzz house, hello chimney etc. 10 feet off a lake, hello downdraft
3 Fuel starvation, often plenty of gas, but in wrong tank or above water

Those are the reasons people die in aircraft
last year i looked at, of 325 or so US GA deaths, 5 were due to loss of engine.
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Enjoy the build,njut av byggandet, godere il costruire, nyd bygningen, geniesse den Bau, apolafse tin kataskevi, disfrute la construcción, curta a construção, Pidä hauskaa rakentamisen parissa, bouw lekker,uživaj grade?inaslajdaites postroikoi, geniet die bou
dust

maker of wood, fiberglass, foam dust, metal bits and one day a Cozy will pop out and swiftly whisk me from meeting old friends and family to adventures throughout the world
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2004, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarber
Wapati8,

I just noticed you are in Austin. I live in Houston (and it is home) but my heart and MANY fine college/fraternity memories are in the Texas Hill Country. I graduated from Texas State in San Marcos. As a matter of fact, our yearly trek to Gruen is coming up in a couple of weeks.

If you want to visit a project (Velocity SE with 13bt) feel free to give me a call. I am between Hobby and Ellington Field. Just FWI.

All the best,

Chris
Chris,

I definately want to take you up on that. Unfortunately I am in Europe right now. I should be home the second week of September. Can we get together after that. I would love to see your plane, and your engine instalation!

Right now I am trying to get a headstart on a plan.

By the way... my name is Mike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
I prefer a single, unless they are turbo props. Most light twins lose 1/2 power and 90% performance on the loss of an engine
Now I am a little confused… the twin was sounding like a good idea to me.

My original intent was to build it with one 20b (Which John is estimating would put out 420 hp if it performs proportionally to his 13b at 280hp). If I did this would I really need a huge prop? In theory will it work, which is better? I need to get these configurations computer tested.

On the fuel consumption issue… You can run a rotary very lean in cruise. I am also enlarging the airplane 33%. Wouldn’t the fuel capacity increase as well?

I am not a professional and have no training in aviation engineering. But this seems to work out in my mind.

No matter what I want to keep the cabin about the size of my seating plan posted earlier in this thread… and I have become very attached to the idea of pressurizing it, although I have no knowledge how this is done.

Loving the discussion so far… I am really excited to start putting all of these Ideas into practice in the coming months.

---Mike
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  #30  
Old 07-29-2004, 05:02 PM
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Mike,

Let me know when you return to the GSOT and we can make arraingments for you to come on over.

All the best,

Chris
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