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  #1  
Old 05-09-2005, 07:41 PM
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Waiter Waiter is offline
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Default EFI

Anybody hear anything about the MegaSquirt EFI controller??

I've been reading about it for another project I'm working on, it sounds like it has potential in the experimental class

Waiter
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2005, 07:47 PM
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tnt tnt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter
Anybody hear anything about the MegaSquirt EFI controller??

I've been reading about it for another project I'm working on, it sounds like it has potential in the experimental class

Waiter
But doesn't that control only squirt, not ignition? eracer guy has one of those I believe.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2005, 07:56 PM
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Not that I'm anybody, but I had never heard of it before. After reviewing just a couple pages on the web, it seems like you'd have to be interested in tinkering to use one of these units. Fuel injection isn't something I want to play with. For less tinkering, try reading up on the SDS units for around $1,000. Personally, I'd rather drop some change for a system that's a little more ready to go. See: http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html

I've yet to see an aftermarket injection system that I'd feel comfortable flying around with. The relative efficiency gain isn't good enough to do away with my fear that these units might fail in flight and cause an emergency landing at a 65mph touchdown speed. Now if I had a slow flyer I'd really consider it. But who cares about efficiency while cruising at 100mph.

When I did a little light research on this subject before, I concluded that a good linkage on an Ellison throttle body would provide a very satisfactory level of efficiency, at least good enough for me all things considered.
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:07 PM
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mega squirt is totally experimental and home made by you the builder, eracer has the F.A.S.T unit for fuel injection, SDS is a great unit for all except, i believe, rotary - cannot handle the offset second set of plug firing.

The F.A.S.T. is fuel, the SDS is Fuel and ignition, the megasquirt is fuel, I'm going with the excel fuel and ignition and SQ2000 flyier is running a microtech on a rotary

And of course we all know the slade story - we are all just waiting for a happy ending
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:37 PM
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My reccomendations are, and not in any particular order:

Excel
SDS
Microtech
Motec ($$$)
Haltech
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2005, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
And of course we all know the slade story - we are all just waiting for a happy ending
Me too. Based on what I've seen so far, I'll take bets that the happy ending involves a lot of grovelling, and a public apology to Tracy for all the additional phone calls and testing he's had to endure because of my poor workmanship. I predict a lot of trouble-free flying with the EC2 once I rewire it.
Finally - a perfect opportunity to use the target banana (on myself)
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  #7  
Old 05-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Aaron Aaron is offline
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John, don't beat yourself up too much until you've finished your rewiring job, only then will you know if its truly the wiring.

as for megasquirt, if I were not going with Crook's, I'd be looking at Haltech. very proven record in the automotive world.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2005, 07:24 AM
Joe Berki Joe Berki is offline
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There seems to be several versions of Megasquirt that can also control ignition. I have entertaining the idea of outting one of these systmes together just for gound testing. Maybe with some experimentation a second unit could be programed to make the system single failure tolerant.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2005, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Maybe with some experimentation a second unit could be programed to make the system single failure tolerant
.
Thats what my line of thinking is. These things are inexpensive enough were I can have two totally separate controllers, running on different power systems. They may (or not) share injectors, sensors, etc.

It also looks like the group is very close to releasing their "COMBO" unit that does both ignition and injection.

I'm going to be playing with one on my 1982 El Camino, AFTER I get my EZ back in the air. This might be a good project for next winter.

Waiter
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2005, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
I'll take bets that the happy ending involves a lot of groveling, and a public apology to Tracy for all the additional phone calls and testing he's had to endure because of my poor workmanship.
I don't take kindly to people talking unkindly about my friends and if you don't stop it, i'm gonna get in my car, plane is not done yet, drive to that god forsaken state you live in and kick BUTTTT.

No way you caused all of this grief you have been living with - the unit was bad, sent back and returned Bad. please stop trash talkin John Slade, he is a great guy and we are all tired of it.
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  #11  
Old 05-10-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter
.
Thats what my line of thinking is. These things are inexpensive enough were I can have two totally separate controllers, running on different power systems. They may (or not) share injectors, sensors, etc.

Waiter
I had an idea on a "back-up" fuel supply system that I'll throw out.

Given that the Ellison throttle body would work as a throttle body with an injected system, why not just:
1) Install the Ellison with your EFI system
2) Plumb fuel to the Ellison in the normal fashion, with a fuel cut-off in the line, always in the "closed" position unless/until EFI system failure.

Granted, the intake manifold system et all designed for the EFI system wouldn't work as well with fuel coming through the Ellison itself, but I would have to assume that you'd still have an engine producing a lot of power.

Why wouldn't this work?
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I had an idea on a "back-up" fuel supply system that I'll throw out.
{snip}
Why wouldn't this work?
I think it could work, as long as the fuel supply to the ellison was after the regulator and your fuel rail pressure was around 4-6 psi, and the injector didn't ice over.

The question is, what failure mode are you trying to overcome here? When designing safety systems it's best to start with a failure scenario first.

For example: Engine computer failure, electrical bus failure, alternator fail, fuel pump failure. filter clog. carburetor ice.

I cant think of a scenario where this backup would work.
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  #13  
Old 05-10-2005, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
I cant think of a scenario where this backup would work.
Sample installation:
-Standard aircraft engine
-at least one set of plugs fired by standard mag
-EFI with Ellison TBI (with its own fuel circuit, normally off, with appropriate fuel pressure)

Maintaining one standard mag and an Ellison capable of supplying the fuel would seem to allow a very nice "limp" mode in the following circumstances:
-Electrical failure
-Injector failure (rare)
-Computer malfunction
-Vapor lock (stretching it here)

I don't know that the above arrangement 'would' work, but if it did, it would allay my personal fears about using an EFI system.

Possible benefits of the above arrangement?
-No "injected hot start problems"...simply start using fuel through the Ellison, then switch to EFI
-No need to have two EFI systems, injectors, etc....no need for two batteries, or whatever else.
-Have a fuel system that functions independent of electrons traveling through wires.
-Study both fuel systems in the air on the same flight, proving that EFI isn't better than the Ellison
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  #14  
Old 05-10-2005, 02:17 PM
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I hate to say it, as i am MR BACKUP, but, the falure rate on ECU's is very low.

I'm pretty sure i am going with one unit and two sets of sensors
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  #15  
Old 05-10-2005, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
The question is, what failure mode are you trying to overcome here? When designing safety systems it's best to start with a failure scenario first.

For example: Engine computer failure, electrical bus failure, alternator fail, fuel pump failure. filter clog. carburetor ice.
The failure scenarios that I think are most concerning are related to:
1) the computer
2) injectors
3) need for electricity to operate
Problems with 1 or 2 would probably require a piggyback EFI to be isntalled. A problem with #3 would make any "E"FI unusable in short order (or add extra batteries/weight).

Failure scenarios related to:
1) Clogged fuel line
2) Fuel pump failure
may not be helped with any number of EFI or carb arrangements. Using a seperate fuel circuit to supply the Ellison would allow for complete redundancy with both #1 and #2. Of course, you could install a complete second circuit for a second EFI, but you're still dependent on electrons, and probably extra weight with a second battery etc.

In terms of using the Ellison as a back-up system, I don't consider carb ice to be a factor. If you're running on injectors and switch to the Ellison, there's no ice sitting there that would prevent the Ellison from immediately starting to work. Maybe you mean ice forming after switching to the Ellison? The liklihood of this is very very low in most installations, but possible. Even so, the usage is for limp mode, which would be totally satisfactory.
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