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  #1  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:00 AM
FlyingRiki FlyingRiki is offline
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Question Brake Lines

I spent a fair part of last weekend cleaning two different kinds of fluid and teflon tape out of my recently installed Grove brakes after a lockup on the runway on takeoff. After undoing and redoing the lines many times I now wonder what is the life expectancy of the brass piece on the line that is squeezed inside the fitting? I haven't tried to take one off yet but would assume they may be dug into the Nylaflow line. Any advice out there?
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Brake Lines

My LongEZ has 2600 hours on it, I never had a problem with the original Plans brake components, (other than they were under-rated). The brass inserts are original.

The nylaflow tubes were protected from brake disk heat and UV.

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  #3  
Old 07-18-2007, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Yes, but, how many times can you take them apart and put them together? without trashing the tube and brass insert?
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2007, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Brake Lines

If you have the correct matching components I don't see a problem. I tried to install the brass inserts into the nylaflow (or is it nylaseal) lines they're not meant for. Its tough to get them in, but it can be done. Do this and the plastic gets stretched and thin, then the heat from the caliper transmits through the brass and melts the plastic. I was able to catch this on the ground before it hurt.
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade View Post
If you have the correct matching components I don't see a problem. I tried to install the brass inserts into the nylaflow (or is it nylaseal) lines they're not meant for. Its tough to get them in, but it can be done. Do this and the plastic gets stretched and thin, then the heat from the caliper transmits through the brass and melts the plastic. I was able to catch this on the ground before it hurt.
If the insert was hard to install you are using the wrong insert. the different types of tubing have different wall thickness. they make inserts for both types. the right insert for the right tubing and they last a long time. the sun and heat are the biggest problem with this type of tubing. use a short loop of aluminum tubing for the exposed portion from the brake caliper up to the gear leg fairing and then the plastic tubing.
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2007, 02:07 PM
argoldman argoldman is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade View Post
If you have the correct matching components I don't see a problem. I tried to install the brass inserts into the nylaflow (or is it nylaseal) lines they're not meant for. Its tough to get them in, but it can be done. Do this and the plastic gets stretched and thin, then the heat from the caliper transmits through the brass and melts the plastic. I was able to catch this on the ground before it hurt.
John,

As you found out the Nyloseal tubing was not designed, nor will it accept an insert. It does quite well with the compression fittings Au Natural, as it were.

I think most of the problems that people have with it is that they try to use it as if it were an other material such as Nyloflow.

Nyloflow is a completely different animal, physically and chemically. It has many problems, not the least of which is degradation with UV, in addition to being rather thin walled (thus the necessity for the inserts).

There are two types of Nyloseal for different pressure ranges. I am using the black stuff (higher burst strength), although I don't think it is necessary. I have also used it for the conduits for my rudder cables.

Using materials, or parts differently than their original design parameters, while although not incorrect (how would we progress were it not for that) is fraught with potential problems. I think it was you who mentioned that a problem that somebody was having with Tracy's ECU was possibly due to modifications made on it.

Nyloseal Rocks
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2007, 02:53 PM
FlyingRiki FlyingRiki is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Rich,
I'm confused on what the lines are in my plane. I have the clear tubing with the slip on brass ring that is part of a compression assembly. I have the brake line completely covered with heat shield to avoid UV and help with heat shielding. I intend to change the lines near the brakes with braided SS as a friend has done to avoid the heat issue altogether. But for now I wonder about the name of the material of my lines compared to what others are using? And I understand the brass compression fitting is good for quite a few cycles of on and off?
Thanks for all the help!
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2007, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Brake Lines

maybe another way of asking - how do you tell if the compression fitting and or the tube is not usable and a fresh section of tubing r fitting is called for. hopefully there is enough material to make a fresh cut and rejoin it to the caliper or master when the current end is wore out
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2007, 03:14 PM
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David Clifford David Clifford is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade View Post
If you have the correct matching components I don't see a problem. I tried to install the brass inserts into the nylaflow (or is it nylaseal) lines they're not meant for. Its tough to get them in, but it can be done. Do this and the plastic gets stretched and thin, then the heat from the caliper transmits through the brass and melts the plastic. I was able to catch this on the ground before it hurt.
John,,,,,You must have had the wrong size inserts. Ours were a perfect slip fit. We then joined the nylaflow to the SS lines with brass fittings down to the brakes in the "hell hole"..
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:19 PM
FlyingRiki FlyingRiki is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Any idea which is used in the plans: (?)

Nylafow® Pressure Tubing Sizes and Bend Radius
Type H Min Type T Min Type LP Min Type LM Min
Bend Bend Bend Bend
O.D. Wall Radius O.D. Wall Radius O.D. Wall Radius O.D. Wall Radius
1/8" .023" 3/8" 1/8" .015" 5/8" 1/8" .015" 5/8" 1/8" .095" 5/8"
3/16" .038" 5/8" 5/32" .025" 3/4" 3/16" .025" 1" 3/16" .137" 1"
1/4" .050" 1-1/4" 3/16" .025" 1' 1/4" .030" 1-1/4" 1/4" .180" 1-1/4"
5/16" .062" 2" 1/4" .030" 1-1/4" 5/16" .035" 2" 5/16" .232" 2"
3/8" .075" 2-1/2" 5/16" .035" 2" 3/8" .040" 3" 3/8" .275" 3"
3/8" .040" 3" 1/2" .062" 1-1/2" 1/2" .375" 4-1/2"
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:21 PM
argoldman argoldman is offline
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Default Re: Brake Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRiki View Post
Rich,
I'm confused on what the lines are in my plane. I have the clear tubing with the slip on brass ring that is part of a compression assembly. I have the brake line completely covered with heat shield to avoid UV and help with heat shielding. I intend to change the lines near the brakes with braided SS as a friend has done to avoid the heat issue altogether. But for now I wonder about the name of the material of my lines compared to what others are using? And I understand the brass compression fitting is good for quite a few cycles of on and off?
Thanks for all the help!
It's fairly to tell the difference between the 'Flow and the "Seal.

The 'Flow has a relatively large ID and is a softish material, relatively easily bent so that it kinks relatively easily. It tends to be whitish, rather milky in appearance, and because it is rather thin needs the brass insert.

The 'Seal is quite a different animal. It is rather stiff but flexible (still can be bent within reason) and appears hard to the touch. It's ID is smaller than the flow of similar OD. Its color, although not completely transparent is much more so than the 'Flow.

By hand, it is impossible to crush and is more difficult to cut.

With a brass compression fitting, the only thing that is deformed is the little brass (or plastic) insert (ferrule) that is shaped like a barrel. The two parts of the compression fitting are such that when you tighten it, the barrel shape compresses around the tube and forms the seal. When you take these apart, you may find the ferrule deformed in which case it should be replaced.
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