Danny's Plane Day

I'd be better at this if I were 15. Young, no cares, no financial obligations. Now I'm 25, old, worn-out and broken down by the ravages of time. I still get carded for spray paint and R-Rated movies.

The EAA didn't meet this week. Their sign says "4th Saturday of the month", but they met last week instead. Lawrenceville meets next week. They are the 500lb gorilla, I'm told.

Pictures have been uploaded. Thanks for the advice Steve, I'm currently using an approx 1-1 by volume mix of micro to mixed-epoxy. I'll up the dosage.

[Waiter]

I'd be better at this if I were 15. Young, no cares, no financial obligations. Now I'm 25,

KIDS!

Waiter

Originally Posted by Waiter

KIDS!

Waiter

No thanks!

[1286]

Danny,

I think there is a flying Cozy at Lawrenceville. But the builder is very anti-Web. Internet is very BAD type guy. There might be a second canard as well. Try and make it to the meetings and don't be afraid to ask about canard builders there. Most will be more than willing to offer help. Most of us have been bit by the builder bug! (What are we going to build next?)

Bob

[neverquit]

KIDS!

Waiter, I knew what you meant.

Danny, old and over the hill Burt was just making his first experimentals! Keep on the path and I'll see you in space!

Originally Posted by 1286

Danny,

I think there is a flying Cozy at Lawrenceville. But the builder is very anti-Web. Internet is very BAD type guy. There might be a second canard as well. Try and make it to the meetings and don't be afraid to ask about canard builders there. Most will be more than willing to offer help. Most of us have been bit by the builder bug! (What are we going to build next?)

Bob

Here is how random some things in life are:
I met Bob Steward at AS&S. He was buying something and so was I. Bob lives in Alabama and knows "everyone".
Bob said there might be a cozy fuselage for sale at LZU and put me in touch with Joel Levine of EAA 690. Bob also said that the cozy owner's name is Terry Hart, but that was 3.5 yrs ago. Joel said he wasn't aware of any fuselage for sale and that, while he remembered a cozy at LZU, he doesn't know if it was still there. Guess I'll find out when I get to the meeting! Right now I'm waiting on.....umm.......Back to work!

I finished the last layup on the bookend. It is currently awaiting a knife trim. Thursday is a major cleanup day. I'm moving my cabinet onto a dedicated cloth cutting table. Then I'll do the seatback! Yay!

How much micro is too much micro? I'm painting the micro on just like that. Paint. I try to keep a thin, uniform layer on the foam. I'm finding that the micro will fill in low spots between the squeege edges, but will ride the epoxy out of the layup. Is this correct behavior? I'm making my micro like a ford falcon: runs, but slowly.

[John Slade]

If you can paint it with a brush it's too thin. Mix it up until it's a paste that still has some shine, but wont fall off an inverted squeege. Squeege it on, spread it out for full coverage, then squeege as much of it back off as you can. The bigger the cells in the foam, the thicker you need to make it.

When you're done squeeging it off the color of the foam should show through. Just the holes are filled with white. Now lay on the cloth. The micro will stay in the holes when you add epoxy and squeege the glass.

Does that help?

It's a lot easier to do than it is to say.

[Jerry Schneider]

Originally Posted by John Slade

If you can paint it with a brush it's too thin. Mix it up until it's a paste that still has some shine, but wont fall off an inverted squeege. .

I gotta differ here. The plans states micro slurry is the same consistency as pure epoxy.
Chapter 3, Page 8: "The slurry can be poured on the foam and spread thin with a squeegee or painted on with a brush."
IMHO, the micro has to be that thin to be able to flow into the individual cells completely, thereby increasing bond strength.

My procedure:
1. Squeege/paint slurry on.
2. Let sit for a few minutes. (You'll actually see tiny bubbles come thru as the slurry fills the cells. I've also used a hair dryer to speed this up.)
3. Squeegee as much micro off as you can.
4. Apply glass.

About the micro riding up into the layup: You may be leaving too much micro on the foam.(See step 3) And before laying the glass,you can go away for a little while to let the micro tack-up, then put the glass down and the micro will stay put.

HTH

[John Slade]

Jerry's right, and this works well for the high density foam such as the panel and F22. When I had the same trouble Danny's describing on the seatback I called both Nat and Jeff Russel. Both said "make it thicker".

[neverquit]

Bottom line - some micro will ride the wave. Don't worry.

The whole reason for the micro in the foam is to save weight. Some say it makes the epoxy bond better. Steve Parkins has mentioned in some cases he doesn't use it on the foam. For the high density foam I may agree. The big cell low density foam like the blue stuff I've used the micro mix up to 50%. Hey, at the rising price of epoxy, it's now economically best to use as much micro as the plans say you can. Don't worry how it looks in the end. I have some pieces that look like the old Microsoft sky wallpaper thing.

[Glos]

I'm between Jerry and John

The idea is to fill the voids in the foam with what amounts to a filler of "air" i.e. balloons of air. The glass will pick up enough epoxy from the stipling. Filling the voids in the foam and the ripples in the glass with raw epoxy adds too much weight and no additional strength. Filling the voids with a very wet mixture of slurry amounts to the same thing. I don't think the micro adds anything structural to the strength.

The problem is describing what is wet and what is too dry.

Imagine spackle. It has a nice consistancy but still holds together enough to fill holes. Too dry and it "rolls over" when trying to spread it.

I came out on the light side (820 Lbs empty) on my Long. You can easily add 50+ lbs if you wind up on the "wet" side.

The same thing if you follow some of the methods and fill the top side of the glass with micro that is too wet. Now you get the glass sandwitched between two layers of very wet micro. If you do this anticipate adding 100 lbs
to the empty weight.

Look at it this way. Why carry around 100 lbs of excess epoxy that doesn't do anyting for you.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm moving into chapter 4 this weekend. I've got my glass rolls mounted and I moved more crap from the garage into the attic. Eaa meeting this saturday. I canardly wait. Ha ha ha ha!

10.75 hours later, the seatback is making its final cure. I picked up the 4 sheets of last-a-foam monday, so now it is on to whatever you make with the last-a-foam (too lazy to look it up right now).