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  #1  
Old 07-25-2006, 11:38 AM
Fred N. Fred N. is offline
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Default First Cozy/First Rotary Flight

Connecticut is small enough that you should be able go from one place to another and back in a day. Stamford is 80 plus miles from Niantic where I met John Slade in his office at 4:30. We drove another :30 to KWST where is SLICK KITTEN is hangared.

I'd mentioned to John that I'd never ridden in a Cozy or in a rotary-powered plane. John is an ICON in the turbo-rotary movement and to my knowledge THE PIONEER. He is also informative, kind and an accomodating, English gentleman, who bent over backwards to help me across that hurdle.

The KITTEN was kind of lost in a big hangar and needed to be caressed and flown. After a thorough pre-flight, he invited me to enter first into the right front seat. She started on the first turn of the key. All engine parameters being normal, we were ready for an immediate taxi to runway 25. It took a little time to reach the runway (due to other aviation enthusiasts including John's neighbor who flys a T-6 Texan) so water and oil temps were both right around 200 degrees.

The KITTEN used about 1000 of the 3000' runway. John is conservative and we had flying speed before 1000 but lifted off beyond that point. He pointed out that he climbs at reduced power to keep his oil and water temps in check. They both had approached 220 during T/O. In climb, they remained just under that reading. They seem to be closely wired together, hardly ever varying more than 5 degrees from the other.

Climb rate was less than what I am used to in my LEZ-RG, but then this is a heavier and bigger airplane; plus John has a good reason for using reduced power to keep his temps in the correct range.

T/O was near 7 p.m. and the VFR evening sky was glorious. The entire flight was smooth as glass. Visibility was spectacular, especially when we turned crosswind away from the sun just above the NW horizon. We climbed to 5000' where he allowed me to take the stick.

Power was not reduced any further and we accelerated to 160 KIAS in level flight. Water and oil temps were now back to 185 - 190. EGT was 1700 plus.
Control forces were very similar to the LEZ. We remained at all times completely within gliding distance of KWST while searching for other spots where it could be put had we not had enough altitude.

When John reduced power for our descent back to the airport, it felt rather quiet. I would judge it to be similar to or quieter than a turbine-powered aircraft descent. What noise there is comes mainly from the prop. In addition, the airframe vibrations of a reciprocating engine were totally absent throughout the whole flight. Water & oil temps came down around 155.

Remembering how hard it has been to get my LEZ-RG slowed to the correct final approach and touch-down speeds, on downwind I suggested to John extending the landing brake. His reply: "I don't do that till I have the field made." He turned out to be right. The Cozy is bigger and heavier. There was no problem.

I observed John add a short burst of power just before touchdown to maintain a flatter pitch angle in order to avoid any prop strike. The KITTEN has good brakes, but we used the entire runway for roll-out. Heavy braking only adds heat to the main gear legs and his are already spread abnormally according to John.

John made my day. In fact, he made my week and my month! I'm going home now to get the turbo-Renesis mounted on my LEZ and begin flying again.

P.S. I'm high on the list of world's worst photographers. I borrowed my daughters camera and intended to do stills. Only the 2 John took of me by the KITTEN are stills. The videos were of the T-6 crew, my feet, the ramp and vehicles wherever it was accidentally aimed.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2006, 02:30 PM
Buly Buly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred N.

John is an ICON in the turbo-rotary movement and to my knowledge THE PIONEER. .
He is an icon alright. We are getting ready to build a cathedral with his name here in SFL. I have saved a pile of John's turbos for the oltar
We miss him here
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2006, 06:29 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Glad you enjoyed the flight, Fred. You left you're sunglasses in my truck. PM an address and I'll mail them back to you.

Quote:
I have saved a pile of John's turbos for the oltar
You could add yours to the pile, Buly, since I scared you out of using it.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2006, 01:20 PM
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tnt tnt is offline
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Thanks for sharing your experience Fred. I've always wondered, how rich is John's accent?
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:27 PM
Falcon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnt
I've always wondered, how rich is John's accent?
You know you're loved, when they won't cut you an ounce of slack.

What IS an ounce of slack, anyway?
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:39 PM
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Notice that I said 'how rich' rather than 'how thick' ?
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2006, 06:11 AM
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David Staten David Staten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon
You know you're loved, when they won't cut you an ounce of slack.

What IS an ounce of slack, anyway?
It's approximately 1/16th of a ration of $#!]
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2006, 08:14 AM
deuskid deuskid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon
You know you're loved, when they won't cut you an ounce of slack.

What IS an ounce of slack, anyway?
I'm not certain but I learned early on in my professional career that:

1 ounce of perception = 1 pound of performance...

regrettably [NOT] I never was an good at 'playing games'...

John
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2006, 06:31 PM
SteveWrightNZ SteveWrightNZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuskid
1 ounce of perception = 1 pound of performance...
Its a balancing act between trusting your judgement, and finding yourself way the hell down some dark alley because your perception was wrong to begin with. "Experience" is how to tell the difference AT ALL, and "skill" is how to tell the difference to begin with.

S
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2006, 07:58 PM
Fred N. Fred N. is offline
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Default FIRST TURBO-ROTARY-COZY FLIGHT

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnt
Notice that I said 'how rich' rather than 'how thick' ?
Rich is the correct term. In our visiting, I missed a few things not because of accent, but because John becomes animated and talks fast. I had to slow him down to understand what he was telling me.

I spent a few months living in Lancashire and Yorkshire. John lived in those areas also before coming to the U.S. some 30 + or - years ago.

Back to the KITTEN, I am totally impressed at how trouble-free and easy our flight went. This is a fast bird. John is nearly ready to put the pants back on and expects a nice speed increase from those. He also has not used all the power he has available with his latest turbocharger.

In moving the plane to CT, he had a problem with his Ivoprop and was using his old Performance prop. He says the ship practically jumps off the ground in a short distance and climbs like a homesick angel with the Ivo. He will have the Ivo back in a few day. The Ivo did not do as well in cruise according to John, but then he has had little time to explore the range of it's performance in cruise.

I visited Waiter 8 months ago to see his Infinity gear on his LEZ. He uses an MT prop. The only thing wrong with it is like the current fuel prices -- price-sticker-shock. I didn't see it fly, but he claims it gets off quick and climbs like a rocket. Ivo had a bad rep a few years ago, but now seem to be offering a good, reliable product.
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2006, 12:47 AM
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tnt tnt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred N.
Rich is the correct term. In our visiting, I missed a few things not because of accent, but because John becomes animated and talks fast. I had to slow him down to understand what he was telling me.
Now that is interesting Fred. Looking at John's avitar you'de expect him to talk a bit relaxed. I also tend to talk fast, too fast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred N.
I am totally impressed at how trouble-free and easy our flight went. This is a fast bird. John is nearly ready to put the pants back on and expects a nice speed increase from those. He also has not used all the power he has available with his latest turbocharger.
Speaking of turbo's, with the talk of Joe Hull's adventures, I'm thinking the only longer-term solution may be to run the exhaust thru a turbo. But you can't do that to a renesis at lower altitudes given its compression ratio. A turbo is something I didn't want to do, I wanted a simpler and cheaper installation. I can live with NA. At least we've got someone putting time in with a better turbo. Thanks John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred N.
: In moving the plane to CT, he had a problem with his Ivoprop and was using his old Performance prop. He says the ship practically jumps off the ground in a short distance and climbs like a homesick angel with the Ivo. He will have the Ivo back in a few day. The Ivo did not do as well in cruise according to John, but then he has had little time to explore the range of it's performance in cruise.
Yes, I've read the chatter on IVO's. Great accelleration and climb performance at lower pitches but a limit to the top speeds due to the rather large and unhelpful roots. I think Tracy had that experience.
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2006, 09:38 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Quote:
I'm thinking the only longer-term solution may be to run the exhaust thru a turbo.
Tracy's Renesis doesnt have a turbo and that's been trouble free since he installed it. You just have to build the exhaust out of something VERY substancial, and allow for expansion.

Quote:
But you can't do that to a renesis at lower altitudes given its compression ratio.
Sure you can. Just be gentle with the boost and generous with the mixture when using it. At altitude the engine thinks it's a sea level.

My REW is 9.7 ratio (with 3mm seals) and see's 46 - 48 MAP on every take-off. Renesis is 10.1. How much difference can 0.4 make?
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2006, 10:35 PM
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MarbleTurtle MarbleTurtle is offline
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So what was wrong with the IVO?
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Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2006, 12:52 AM
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tnt tnt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
Tracy's Renesis doesnt have a turbo and that's been trouble free since he installed it. You just have to build the exhaust out of something VERY substancial, and allow for expansion.
Inconel sounded substantial. Maybe somebody in the supply chain to Joe Hull slipped in non-inconel. And since Joe didn't go with the standard motor he apparently didn't read the newsletters talking about having a slip connection in there.

What spooked me was when Lynn stated that on the racing circuit they blow out the most expensive and best exhaust systems rather quickly. Nothing handles it. (except those on street rx-7/8s) Finally today I realized, yeah, on the racing circuit where Lynn says they normally don't run below something like 8000rpm. That makes a difference. I'll have to take a look at the stock cast iron headers. Already my turrentine renesis is supposed to be 16 lbs lighter than earlier 13b's iirc. And then for muffler the boxy little spintech seems to be the fit. Flowtech is too long. But i've got some time before I'll be spending money on it and we'll get more learning experiences out there with totally custom exhaust implementations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
My REW is 9.7 ratio (with 3mm seals) and see's 46 - 48 MAP on every take-off. Renesis is 10.1. How much difference can 0.4 make?
You've got a point. But still, I'm determined to go no-turbo unless NA turns out to do something like only 160hp at best. I can't fork out the $ like a VP. I don't think it'll be as bad as 160hp at 6500rpm, there are published dyno charts that show much greater when in the car. And I don't think all that additional power is in the complex intake system like has been said today.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2006, 09:39 AM
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Dust Dust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Slade
Sure you can. Just be gentle with the boost and generous with the mixture when using it. At altitude the engine thinks it's a sea level.

My REW is 9.7 ratio (with 3mm seals) and see's 46 - 48 MAP on every take-off. Renesis is 10.1. How much difference can 0.4 make?
well john, in my book and many others your install is still in the very experimental category. Lets see ifin the turbo can take it for a few hundred hours before we assume all is well.

Do you have an EGT temp sensor installed yet?
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