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  #61  
Old 05-12-2007, 11:10 AM
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TMann TMann is offline
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Default It's out of the bag!

Removed my bulkheads from the vacuum bag and peeled everything I could peel and WOW........I am absolutely a V/B fan!
I doing the back side today and will start on the fuselage sides this week.

I did F22 & the inst/panel as 1 piece. I'll cut that away before I route/template the final form. My project intimidation is out the window and I'm ready to get building!

I'm a happy guy!

Side note:
1.Working with glass can be a bit like herding cats but I expect my skills will improve as I progress. (Glad I started in chapter 4)
2.It's a good idea to put a good coat of paste wax on everything you don't want epoxied. (including the vacuum port to the bag.)
3.Draw lines on the peel ply! After doing this layup it is extremely clear how peel ply can disapear into a build only to make it's presence known in the middle of a high G turn!
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:43 PM
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I have all my seat backs and bulkheads in the bag for the night. It about takes up my whole table but it's maintaing a vacuum so we are in business. I've got the back side of the seat backs to do then it's on to chapter 5!

Who knows...if I pick up the pace a little, maybe I can fly it to Oshkosh....(in 2009 or 2010 or 2.............)
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:52 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
...I have a slight leak and can hear my pump cyle a couple times per minute but it does reach the proper level of vacuum so it shouldn't be a problem.
Maintaining vacuum is not the only criteria - eliminating air leaks through the layup is also very important. Pulling air through the layup, even if the vac. level is adequate, can easily lead to dry layups.
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  #64  
Old 05-15-2007, 11:00 PM
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I found the leak. It wasn't actually in the bag or seals to the bag but was a slight leak in one of the quick connects I have plumbed into my work table. I have 5 quick connects down the length of my work table so I can plug in just about anywhere, or run more than 1 bag at a time or run a line from my work table to either my work bench or cutting table if I need more work space.

I also have a vacuum switch to ensure that I don't pull excessive vacuum and end up with a dry layup.

Hey.....we're running an airplane factory here, dim-it!
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  #65  
Old 05-16-2007, 03:39 AM
chasingmars chasingmars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
3.Draw lines on the peel ply! After doing this layup it is extremely clear how peel ply can disapear into a build only to make it's presence known in the middle of a high G turn!
Heh, I tried drawing some lines on my peel ply... there's a small amount of a type of alcohol (Benzal or somesuch) in MGS I'm told... that, or some other component acted as a solvent on my little lines and leeched them to the layup, not structurally significant, but my peel ply removed layup has the same lines as the peel plied layup... Nothing beats good inspection. (though you can get peel ply with a red thread woven into it, I found it significantly more expensive)
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  #66  
Old 05-16-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default Infinity Aerospace R/G

About a month ago we were kicking around the state of the Infinity R/G and delivery times on this thread (4/18). I know others have waited a long time for their gear from Infinity Aerospace.
I was talking with J D last night. My date for my gear is this summer which translates to J D has enough orders to make a production run. If you have followed the r/g thread you know that it takes a certain number of orders to reach a volume where making a production run of something this specialized is practical. If you have been considering the Infinity R/G......I would suggest getting your order in now in order to get the shortest timeline for your delivery! If you are just starting your build, this may not be an issue for you at this point but I would suggest getting the information kit so you are not building features that you won't use such as landing gear hard points for fixed gear etc.

T Mann
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  #67  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: N200LZ

Just wanted to post a quick update:
I'm working on chapter 5 now but I really was not happy about the way my F22 bulkhead turned out so I decided to trash it and rebuild it.
The part I was having some heartache over was the way the additional 9 plies turned out. For some reason they were not smooth (kind of lumpy actually) so here's what I did differently (keeping in mind this is a Long-EZ, not a Cozy):
I did my backside layup first. Two plies then the 3" x 20" doubler plus another two plies local over the doubler.
While that was curing, I made a 9 ply layup on a piece of poly that was 13" x 18" alternating the UND & BID covered it with peel ply, etc. and in the vacuum bag it went.
After it had completely cured, I cut it on my radial arm saw into two pieces, 3" x 15". I flipped my F22 piece over, laid up my two plies of BID, pressed my two prepared panels into the wet layup and in the bag they go.

When it's all cured, I will use the template & router technique to cut the final bulkhead shape. The extra plies are exactly what is called out for that area.....no more and no less.

Total time for side two (not counting the 9 ply panel layup) about 30 min.

Heh.......pretty anal for a part nobody will ever see, eh?
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  #68  
Old 06-01-2007, 07:27 PM
chasingmars chasingmars is offline
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Default Re: N200LZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
Just wanted to post a quick update:
I'm working on chapter 5 now but I really was not happy about the way my F22 bulkhead turned out so I decided to trash it and rebuild it.
The part I was having some heartache over was the way the additional 9 plies turned out. For some reason they were not smooth (kind of lumpy actually) so here's what I did differently (keeping in mind this is a Long-EZ, not a Cozy):
I did my backside layup first. Two plies then the 3" x 20" doubler plus another two plies local over the doubler.
While that was curing, I made a 9 ply layup on a piece of poly that was 13" x 18" alternating the UND & BID covered it with peel ply, etc. and in the vacuum bag it went.
After it had completely cured, I cut it on my radial arm saw into two pieces, 3" x 15". I flipped my F22 piece over, laid up my two plies of BID, pressed my two prepared panels into the wet layup and in the bag they go.

When it's all cured, I will use the template & router technique to cut the final bulkhead shape. The extra plies are exactly what is called out for that area.....no more and no less.

Total time for side two (not counting the 9 ply panel layup) about 30 min.

Heh.......pretty anal for a part nobody will ever see, eh?
Up to you to decide what's strong enough, but it should be pointed out that in doing this (if I understood you right) you end up with a secondary bond between the extra nine plies and the base two plies - because there's not any crosslinking between the epoxy in the independantly cured layups, this is weaker. That said, all the taped areas are secondary bonds and such so may not be an issue.

Did you sand the back side of the 9 ply layup, or remove (non-coated) peel ply) immediately prior to laying it onto the F-22?

A tip for template routing - if you make your template as a left and right with an accurate centreline, you can butterfly fold and sand them to match, then when you unfold and tape/epoxy the centre seam, this lets you fine tune the width exactly.
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  #69  
Old 06-01-2007, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: N200LZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasingmars View Post
Did you sand the back side of the 9 ply layup, or remove (non-coated) peel ply) immediately prior to laying it onto the F-22?
Yes.....and yes! I gotta get my money's worth out of that orbital sander! One of the great parts about building this plane is now I have a reason to buy more tools!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasingmars View Post
A tip for template routing - if you make your template as a left and right with an accurate centreline, you can butterfly fold and sand them to match, then when you unfold and tape/epoxy the centre seam, this lets you fine tune the width exactly.
Good Idea that one!
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  #70  
Old 06-02-2007, 12:59 AM
chasingmars chasingmars is offline
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Originally Posted by chasingmars View Post
(though you can get peel ply with a red thread woven into it, I found it significantly more expensive)
I used a little of my "good" peel ply with this red thread today, so I thought I'd follow up with a pic. My "regular" peel ply happens to be the exact colour of cured MGS but I love this good stuff. It's heavier so it releases beautifully even through it's not release coated so no risk of transfer, and there's NO WAY you could forget to remove it! It's called Econostitch I think, but it's not all that "econo" (C$4/ly by the roll, as I recall)...

(and for whomever was joking last time about glassing on my dining room table, yes, that is the dining room table, and no, I didn't lay it up there! )
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  #71  
Old 06-04-2007, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: N200LZ

I'm wrapping up chapter 5 this week. I just have the final plies over the longerons, stiffeners and over the foam build-up in the lwx-lwy area.
I'm still debating over the NACA scoop I see most of the Cozy plans show for chapter 6. I'll be installing a rotary which will be water cooled. I'm trying to figure if I'll need to go down draft or if I can capitalize on the low-drag benefits of the NACA scoop. I have about 4.5 inches of up-sweep in the last 33 inches of the fuselage profile as it transitions to the firewall.
All the Cozy builder sites seem to call out the NACA scoop but where is the line in which the mouth of the scoop in relation to the firewall?
....and is the transition line similar to the Long-EZ profile?
The original Long-EZ plans called out the big external scoop but there is no way I'm going to be creating that much drag on this build.
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  #72  
Old 06-04-2007, 01:07 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: N200LZ

In the Cozy the mouth of the scoop is parallel with the firewall. Mine is plans Cozy size, but I put a lot of attention into the shape of the opening. The underhanging lip needs to be a good airfoil that creates low pressure above it.
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  #73  
Old 06-04-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: N200LZ

Thanks John.
Does the sweep on the back of the fuse match my Long-EZ?
I measure a 4.5 inch rise in the underside of the fuselage between F112 and F125 (firewall.) Just wondering if that's the same on a Cozy? I don't think it will affectiveness of the scoop but now is the time to plan for it.
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  #74  
Old 06-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Default Re: N200LZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
Thanks John.
Does the sweep on the back of the fuse match my Long-EZ?
I measure a 4.5 inch rise in the underside of the fuselage between F112 and F125 (firewall.) Just wondering if that's the same on a Cozy? I don't think it will affectiveness of the scoop but now is the time to plan for it.
The long eze has a lot more curve up in the last 12' of the fuselage then the cozy 4. this was to allow room for the p 51 type scoop. most of the longs that have a NACA scoop have added to the bottom of the fuselage and fair in the cowling to make the transition smoother and this lowers the aft edge of the scoop and makes it much more effecient. fairing the cowling also gives less room for the carb or in your case the very large radiator. with the NACA you loose about 4" of depth in the cowling. on a long eze with a rotary will most likely end up with a p 51 scoop just to have the depth and space for the radiator .
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  #75  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: N200LZ

Tmann;

Take a look at

http://www.iflyez.com/LongEZ_Constru...Fuselage.shtml

All the way at the bottom.

The prefabbed NACA scoop was designed to lay flat on the bottom of a plans built fuselage. You then used foam to fill in the area around the scoop and to build it up.

One photo shows a prefabbed NACA scoop with foam carved away.

The NACA scoop was laid into the correct position on the bottom of the fuselage. The area around the scoop was then filled in with foam. This photo shows the NACA scoop and foam removed, so two layers of BID can be layed up. This layup will become the floor of the hellhole.

If you examine this photo, the inside of the NACA scoop will fit flush against your original plans built firewall. The sides if the NACA scoop now stick down about 4 inches from the original firewall location.

If you look at the attached photo, you can see where the original firewall ended. You can see the shape of the NACA scoop where it entered the cowling in this photo. The bottom cowl had the airfoil for generating the LP area.

Conversion to downdraft cooling:

The tan area (formally my NACA scoop inlet) is a piece of 1/4 plywood that I used to extend the firewall down to cover the opening of the NACA scoop. I cut my NACA scoop completely out and installed a new bottom in the area that was occupied by the NACA scoop. This new Hell Hole floor is now occupied by a passanger seat back sump tank.

Hope this helps a little

Waiter
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Last edited by Waiter : 06-04-2007 at 03:27 PM.
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