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  #16  
Old 12-14-2004, 11:15 PM
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Paul,


Welcome. It is really good to have you on the list. You are one of the names whose name I look for on various list. I hope you decide to contribute here often.

All the best,

Chris
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  #17  
Old 12-17-2004, 09:39 PM
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Default Engine now running much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarber
Paul,


Welcome. It is really good to have you on the list. You are one of the names whose name I look for on various list. I hope you decide to contribute here often.

All the best,

Chris
Thanks, Chris....I did some experimenting and would like to share my test results. I decided to try the short, straight Atkins intake manifold on my rotary powered SQ2000. With my original wrap-over intake manifold, advancing the throttle past the 1/2 throttle opening position resulted in the engine losing power....the more you advanced the throttle, the more rp's lost, until it finally was on the verge of quitting.
First, let me state that I made NO changes to the MicroTech ECU while conducting this test. I only replaced my wrap-over manifold with Dave Atkin's short intake. I used the TWM throttlebody with built-in injectors and fuel rail on both intakes. The only other changes I made were to lengthen the fuel lines and throttle position sensor wires so that they would reach the other side of the engine.
After installing the new manifold and pressurizing the fuel system and checking for leaks, I fired up the engine. What an amazing difference (read that improvement) !!! Idle was excellent, transition from idle to midrange was even better (than what I thought was good with the old setup) and past 1/2 throttle, the more I advanced the throttle, the more rpm's I gained. Went to full throttle without a stumble. Thank you, Dave Atkins...
Of course I saved the best news for last....no more after-shutdown fuel drips. Nothing....NADA....Zip !!!
I think I am overpropped (3 blade 64 x 78 Performance wood prop), but my rpm's went from around 4200 (I think it hit 4400 once) with the wrap-over manifold, to 5000 rp's with the short Atkins manifold. (On one test, I hit 4800 rpm's steady, on the next it was up to 5000 rpm's). Clearly a better running, more powerful engine. I made no attempt to change the mixture...they are at the factory preset (default) values so that the test results would not have any other variables. On the last run-up, I started playing with the mixture, and as little as 5 percent makes a noticable difference in how the engine runs and sounds. Temps were starting to climb above 200, so I shut her down and will do more testing soon.
I now have to install a shorter throttle cable, re-do the temporary wire extensions with proper connectors and heat-shrink, install Adell hose clamps to keep the new fuel lines from making contact with other hoses/engine, etc.
I made and installed a stainless steel heat shield just above my stock cast iron exhaust manifold, which is below the new manifold and throttlebody. After several runups to 4800 and 5000 rpm's, the cast iron exhaust manifold was really hot, but I could put my hand on the throttlebody underneath. Apparantly, the steady ingestion of fuel keeps the throttlebody cool.
I left the hangar very satisfied, and with a big smile on my face. Will post more results as I obtain them.
Paul, wipe that silly grin off your face, Conner

Last edited by Dust : 12-18-2004 at 12:09 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2004, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur
That's for the info Paul and welcome aboard.

If you had to use the mixture control to richen the fuel ratio for better power above 1/2 throttle, you may be over rich when under 1/2 throttle. This may be from differences in volumetric efficiency used in the original fuel map.

By George, that's exactly what happens ! Have you been looking over my shoulder? I have to get in the manual again....It is possible with the MicroTech to set up mixture settings for various stages. What I was doing was leaning/enrichening the entire range (by 1 percent at a time). As soon as I have the time, I need to sit and read the MicroTech manual to better understand how to do this. Working on one item at a time, and slowly all the pieces of the puzzle should come together and make more sense to me. Thanks for your input and info. Paul Conner
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2004, 09:47 PM
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That's great news Paul. Thanks for keeping us up to date on the progress.
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2004, 10:19 PM
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That's really good to hear Paul. You must've chocked it down this time. Hopefully after you're done tweeking the bugs out you'll post some new pics of your installation.

Talking about your wiring brings to mind an earlier thread here based on John Slades experience with wiring corrosion. It seemed to get to places he didn't expect and was rather extensive.
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  #21  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:39 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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You're probably talking about my com antenna wires. They had been installed in the wing for a couple of years and had been subject to humidity, wet sanding etc. Its not really suprising that they corroded. Just for the record, I havent had any problems with any other wires. (other than getting them to the right places )
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  #22  
Old 12-18-2004, 12:08 AM
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OK, let me see if i get this right,

engine lost power over 1/2 throttle, because it was toooooo lean
changed intake manifold
engine power increased because air fuel mixture was better

OK, now if i have that right, and i probably don't, that means the original intake manifold was more efficient than the one you put on.

If i have that right then i would put the original manifold back on, as it has better volumetric efficiency and change the microteck settings to the injectors to correct the fuel flow. This will allow you to gain HP, more air + more fuel = more HP and the original intake manifold was giving you more air.

On ground running, do you have a leaf blower that you could direct into the cooling system for cooling when ground running and fiddling?
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Last edited by Dust : 12-18-2004 at 12:20 AM.
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2004, 12:54 AM
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Default New manifold

Hi, fellow canard and rotary engine enthusiasts. I'm afraid I wasn't very clear on my explanation of my intake manifold problems. What I SHOULD have said was....with the original wrap-over intake manifold, I was not able to go over 1/2 throttle (4200 rpm's) no matter WHAT I did to the mixture. I tried leaning it until it quit, I tried enrichening it until it kept sputtering, spitting out fuel and quit...It just wouldn't run above 1/2 throttle. I reset the unit to factory defaults, and changed to the Atkins manifold. Immediate success. I was able to go to full throttle and the engine ran smooth from idle to WOT. I played with the mixture (rich and lean) and found that it was best around 5 % lean, although it was still more than acceptable at factory defaults. I had my second flight today....It was great to be able to advance the throttle to WOT and just enjoy the flight. Outside air temps were 64 F on takeoff. During climb the water temp climbed to 185 and the oil temp climbed to 182. Upon leveling off at 2500 feet, the water temp stablized at 167 and oil at 164, where it remained for the rest of the flight, except for landing, of course. Still disappointing numbers....still getting only 4800 to 5000 engine rpm's. That happens around 1/2 throttle. Advancing the throttle does not increase rpm's, but the good part is, the engine no longer bogs down when the throttle is above 1/2....it just doesen't increase rpm's. I still suspect that I am over-propped. I have a 3-blade 64 x 78 Performance wood prop, and a PSRU gear reduction of 2.17:1, so my prop is only spinning around at 2200 to 2300 rpm's at WOT. Of course, cruise speed was a disappointing 140 knots with the gear still down. I raised the gear and lowered the nose and the airspeed quickly shot up to 180 knots, and flight controls felt responsive with no control slop or play. (Of course it's easy to go fast downhill, but that's cheating). I'm considering trying a smaller prop with a little less pitch. Ron Gowan used a 3 blade performance 62 x 72 on his rotary powered LongEZ and had engine rpm's of 6000 and 200 mph at 1500' of altitude. I think that a prop closer to those numbers may give me better performance?
Oh, the trials and tribulations of experimenting.... It was wonderful to just turn the key, taxi out, advance the throttle and relax (I already knew the airplane would fly after flight one). After knowing the temperatures were fine, I was able to just fly around for half an hour and enjoy the thing. I definately had better climb performance than the first flight (which climbed like a Cessna 150), but I'm also sure there is more room for improvement. Dave Atkins has an RV-6 with the same engine and intake as mine, and is going considerably faster and has better climb performance...even Tracy Crook and Finn were getting better performance from their rotary powered RV aircraft with simple carburetors. I'm still checking with other rotary engined builders (that are flying) and putting together a list detailing their engine, intake, PSRU ratio, prop used, climb rpm's and speeds and cruise rpm's and speeds. Then I can get a better view of the whole picture. I have some pictures of the aircraft and it's engine installation....how/where do I post them? Thanks in advance for all suggestions and replies. Paul Conner, Mobile, AL
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:58 AM
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Paul,
Really good to hear Paul. Sounds like airflow made the difference with the manifold change. It sure doesn't sound like a fuel or mixture issue. Now, either more airflow issues and/or a propeller size issue. You changed throttle-valve with the manifold change didn't you? Is the size sufficient for your two intake ports concurrently (outside and center)?

As for pics, use the "Manage Attachments" button down lower in the posting page to add pics.

Tom
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:49 PM
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Might the injectors be too small and at 1/2 throttle you can get no more fuel because the injectors can't deliver more fuel?
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2004, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust
Might the injectors be too small and at 1/2 throttle you can get no more fuel because the injectors can't deliver more fuel?
Remember Paul said "I was not able to go over 1/2 throttle (4200 rpm's) no matter WHAT I did to the mixture. I tried leaning it until it quit, I tried enrichening it until it kept sputtering, spitting out fuel and quit...It just wouldn't run above 1/2 throttle." That seems to show that he can add TOO MUCH fuel and so his injector size wouldn't be limiting fuel flow.

When I suggested airflow, I was thinking the intake side. I've just been reading about cast-iron exhaust manifolds, which Paul has, versus aftermarket exhaust headers. I thought I wanted cast-iron the same for noise reduction but now I don't think so. Seems they can restrict exhaust air-flow, depending, qualified, at least a little, and rob power...

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/49178/

Tom
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2005, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnt
. I've just been reading about cast-iron exhaust manifolds, which Paul has, versus aftermarket exhaust headers. I thought I wanted cast-iron the same for noise reduction but now I don't think so. Seems they can restrict exhaust air-flow, depending, qualified, at least a little, and rob power...


Tom
Don't make the assumption that its the cast iron causing the power loss and flow restriction. I think the article was implying "STOCK" when it referred to cast iron exhaust headers. I saw a Greddy cast iron T4 exhaust manifold on ebay a week ago that looked VERY unrestricted. Not stock by any means.

Dave
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2005, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Staten
Don't make the assumption that its the cast iron causing the power loss and flow restriction. I think the article was implying "STOCK" when it referred to cast iron exhaust headers. I saw a Greddy cast iron T4 exhaust manifold on ebay a week ago that looked VERY unrestricted. Not stock by any means. Dave
As for exhaust headers, I looked around a little for non-stock exhaust headers and didn't see any so guessed Paul had a stock header. Thanks for the Greddy lead, always good to find additional sources of parts.

As for Pauls situation, as you might have read , apparently a real motor-subject-expert suggested that Pauls use of a normally turbo'd motor (with lower compression rotors) without the turbo could be the source of his power issue now.
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2005, 12:36 AM
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Wink SQ2000 much better now

Hi, fellow canardians....Just an update on my rotary powered SQ2000. I installed the smaller diameter prop with less pitch, and started "messing" with the mixture ratios. Seems I should have just read the darned manual a 7th time and things might have sunk in. (Only read it 6 times). There are several ways to adjust the mixture on the MicroTech ECU. You can do it by TPS (throttle position sensor) settings, or by Mix Trim, which adjusts mixtures over the whole range from idle to WOT (wide open throttle), or you can just adjust the idle mixture ratios, or just the WOT ratios, or the cruise ratios. When I initially tried adjusting mixtures, I was mistakenly using the mix trim method, so when I made the mixture richer, the top end started showing signs of improvement, but when I pulled the throttle back to idle, it was so rich it would barely run. Finally, I re-read the manual, and decided to first adjust only the idle mixture. Got the engine idling fine. Then I adjusted the WOT settings. I advanced the throttle, and the best rpm's I could get were 4800 rpm static. I increased the mixture ratio by 10%...no change 20%...no change...30%...no change. Just when I was about to quit defeated, I thought "hell with it...I'm going for broke". I advanced the mixture to 40 percent....rpm's went up to 5000. (What the heck)? I further advanced the mixture to 45%...rpm's went up to 5200. At 48% mixture increase, the rpm's stabilized at 5300 rpm's. A far cry from the less than optimum 4800 I was getting previously. (The mixture can be adjusted from -98% to +98%). By now, temps were getting rather high, so I shut her down and let it cool down with a fan blowing up the NACA duct. By the time the temps were coming down, so was the sun, so I decided to wait until the next day to fly. I called Dave Atkins (who sold me the MicroTech, the intake manifold and throttlebody, injectors, etc). He is using the same setup as mine. He said that it was not unusual to have to advance the mixture that much as we have two large injectors instead of 4 small injectors. I asked where he took his vacuum from on the throttlebody, as there are two barbed fittings. I hooked my hose to the rear fitting and put a short hose on the other and plugged it with a screw. He said that was a bad idea, as the ECU was only getting info from one rotor, and that map would fluctuate especially at idle. (I noticed my map fluctuating at idle). He told me to put a Y and use both fittings. I followed his advice.
Day two...acceleration and takeoff were definately improved. It no longer flys like a Cessna !!! I am still slowly testing for flutter (or hopefully, the LACK of flutter), increasing airspeeds 5 knots at a time, so I don't know how fast it will fly yet. I am now up to 145 knots in level flight. Next flight I will take it up to 150 knots.
I just purchased a set of street ported 4-port end plates and center plate for a turbo 13b. I will install high compression NA rotors and housings, and I should have even more power than I now have in my non-ported 13b turbo engine (that does not have a turbo). I am going to build the engine up so that I can just swap engines on a weekend, and not be grounded very long because of engine upgrade. Perhaps then I may have to put the larger prop back on? I'll furnish further flight reports soon. Take care. Paul Conner
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2005, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrike
hows about some pictures or perhaps a video clip of that beast!??
Sorry for the delay in sending pics of the SQ2000. I have been flying it regularly now, and I am even more convinced that the rotary engine is a perfect powerplant for an aircraft. The SQ2000 is a great flying aircraft with flight characteristics very similar to the LongEZ I previously built and flew. The picture is a few months old, (rear windows still have the protective film/tape on them), but it is a decent representation of what the airplane looks like. It has a Wilhelmson noselift (it will kneel like a Cozy) and Velocity main gear and Velocity cowlings. Hope the pic comes through OK. Paul Conner, Mobile AL flying again tomorrow.
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