Canard Community Forum  

Go Back   Canard Community Forum > Instuments / Avionics / Electrical System
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-14-2007, 11:49 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default LED position/anti collision

It ain't purdy, but it works "By the book" it puts out 135 lumens, approx. a 20w incandescent. Too dim for a strobe, but adequate for position lights (with proper aiming (as I read the FAR)).

Pretty cool seeing it rotate thorough the flash patterns I programmed though... using a 9v battery!

Now to figure out how to crank out 2000 lumens, for something that'll aproach a strobe.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	first.proto.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	29.8 KB
ID:	3495  
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7

Last edited by ZG4Me : 03-15-2007 at 12:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:18 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 266
Default LED external illumination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
It ain't purdy, but it works "By the book" it puts out 135 lumens, approx. a 20w incandescent. Too dim for a strobe, but adequate for position lights (with proper aiming (as I read the FAR)).

Pretty cool seeing it rotate thorough the flash patterns I programmed though... using a 9v battery!

Now to figure out how to crank out 2000 lumens, for something that'll aproach a strobe.
Pretty cool. Could you tell us a little bit more about it? What brand LEDs are you using? What kind of circuit are you using to control the flash patterns?

Also worth noting... I seem to recall other builders having problems getting their DAR to sign off on lighting that does not conform to the standards required for certified aircraft despite the inability to point to any such requirements for experimental category craft. (Was this the same guy that had a DAR require some sort of indicator telling if the pitot heat was heating?)
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:51 AM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
Pretty cool. Could you tell us a little bit more about it? What brand LEDs are you using? What kind of circuit are you using to control the flash patterns?
Bit of sand, some plastic, a bit of copper...
Seriously, I think you edjumacated types call it proof of concept.

Position lights can be done (those red/green things at the end of the wings); cheap, light (pun intended), small, and pretty inexpensive (for experimental builders); but there's still some minor issues.

If I make it to RR (probably), I'll bring all this Frankenstein stuff along for every one to poke at.

Quote:
Also worth noting... I seem to recall other builders having problems getting their DAR to sign off on lighting that does not conform to the
From what I'm reading, salesmanship. Drop words like spacial distribution, Lux vs Lumens, V-lambda curve, ...

I think the biggest thing is, they don't have a clue. If the builder could easily prove the lights meet FAR, no problem (duh). That might entail ready access to a light meter of some sort. Once approved, it should be easy to cite other builders. Right. Bwa HAHAHA

But what do I know, I'm still chapter 1

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:55 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
Bit of sand, some plastic, a bit of copper...
Seriously, I think you edjumacated types call it proof of concept.
Rick
Oh, I was just curious if they were Lumileds, Osram, Nichia, or whatever. You mentioned some flash patterns, and I was just wondering if you used a little timer chip, or some other kind of gizmo franken-wired into the LEDs to flash in various patterns.
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2007, 07:38 AM
Jerry Schneider Jerry Schneider is offline
Cozy #768
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
Also worth noting... I seem to recall other builders having problems getting their DAR to sign off on lighting that does not conform to the standards required for certified aircraft despite the inability to point to any such requirements for experimental category craft.
As was pointed out on one of these forums, (maybe here), the best way seems to be NOT install them prior to inspection. Then, tell the DAR you want Day/VFR Rating. Afterward, you can put them on and sign them off yourself.
__________________
"I run with scissors."
Cozy Plans #768
http://home.earthlink.net/~jerskip
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2007, 08:28 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Carrollton, VA
Posts: 1,376
Default

The saga yall are referring to is Matt Bunch's run-in with getting his Cozy III op limits to include night VFR. The discussions were on the Cozy email. You can find the emails with the search engine.
__________________
=============
Wayne Hicks, Cozy Plans #678
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages...cks/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-15-2007, 10:05 AM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
Oh, I was just curious if they were Lumileds, Osram, Nichia, or whatever. You mentioned some flash patterns, and I was just wondering if you used a little timer chip, or some other kind of gizmo franken-wired into the LEDs to flash in various patterns.
The ones in the pic are 1w white Luxeon's. (Look @ cree.com too BTW)
The discrete's include a PIC MCU, which holds the programmed sequences, soft off, on, sleep.

Right, left, pause.
R R pause L L
RL RL pause
RR Center Center LL pause
...
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:08 PM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
The ones in the pic are 1w white Luxeon's. (Look @ cree.com too BTW)
The discrete's include a PIC MCU, which holds the programmed sequences, soft off, on, sleep.

Right, left, pause.
R R pause L L
RL RL pause
RR Center Center LL pause
...
Cool (that answers the question, by the way). The Lumileds Luxeons are pretty good LEDs (but with only one global distributor, not always readily available to the small-volume guy like you and I.)

I still haven't played with PIC microcontrollers yet. The little bit of micro experience that I have involves things a lot less simple, and my feeble little memory couldn't cobble together any functionality out them anymore without some restudy. The PICs are supposed to be cheap and simple from everything I hear and see.

There are a lot of months in the calendar that need to go by before I start looking at electrical and lighting and such, but I have been thinking about my lighting requirements (desires) since before I even bought plans. That is why your post (with photos ) caught my interest.

So just a 9V battery, a PIC, and the LEDs. Hmmm... no other driver to keep the LEDs happy?
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-15-2007, 10:40 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default Sew, I'm slow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
So just a 9V battery, a PIC, and the LEDs. Hmmm... no other driver to keep the LEDs happy?
Daniel Dillon
Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays);
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I need to read sig's 'mo better

I got lucky, Newark shipped me three after a two week wait.

MCU runs 2.5-5v, so needs a regulator.
LED's are current driven, so dropping resistors work (for now)
MCU has 25mw sink/source so MOSFET on the output.
There's some spiffy SOT current regulating devices on the horizon, capable of PWM and TTL/CMOS control.

Lots of cool features about the PIC's, most any pin can be configured as in *or* out. Depending on the device, a whole slew of options (ADC, multiple timers, ...). But I'm probably preaching to the choir

I was thinking on paractical applications. Read: simple for me.
Dimmable LED lights (panel, passenger compartment).
Strobe driver(s).
Ring of purple LED's on the belly
The gear down / speed / landing brake logic. Canopy latch.
Add in a differential pressure gauge for backup ASI.
Could even interface w/ thermocouples, capacitance probes, tension/weight transducers, ...
Add a voice module like John Slade has: "John, the gear is down. John, did you ballast for no passenger?"...

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-16-2007, 04:19 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
I need to read sig's 'mo better

I got lucky, Newark shipped me three after a two week wait.

MCU runs 2.5-5v, so needs a regulator.
LED's are current driven, so dropping resistors work (for now)
MCU has 25mw sink/source so MOSFET on the output.
There's some spiffy SOT current regulating devices on the horizon, capable of PWM and TTL/CMOS control.

Lots of cool features about the PIC's, most any pin can be configured as in *or* out. Depending on the device, a whole slew of options (ADC, multiple timers, ...). But I'm probably preaching to the choir

I was thinking on paractical applications. Read: simple for me.
Dimmable LED lights (panel, passenger compartment).
Strobe driver(s).
Ring of purple LED's on the belly
The gear down / speed / landing brake logic. Canopy latch.
Add in a differential pressure gauge for backup ASI.
Could even interface w/ thermocouples, capacitance probes, tension/weight transducers, ...
Add a voice module like John Slade has: "John, the gear is down. John, did you ballast for no passenger?"...

Rick
Not preaching to the choir here. I don't know much about PICs at all actually... never used 'em. I do a lot of LED stuff on the job and fool around with various circuits now and then (but less and less as free time decreased).

Ring of purple LEDs on the belly? Don't you motorcycle types call guys who do that squids?

It sounds pretty cool. I need to get a PIC eval board or kit and mess with them. Just like you I have a few ideas for electronics gizmos. It is likely that once my plane is flying, then the fun begins as I turn the thing into a test bed for electronics gizmos.

Just like you, I have my list of wants.
  • Nice interior lighting (lots of LEDs, brightness controlled and color controlled at least between red and white)
  • bright position lights
  • bright anticollision light
  • strobes
  • landing light / taxi light (haven't decided where or what)
  • small LED floodlamp illuminating entrance area of aicraft for night flights
  • good instrument lighting
  • chart reading light
  • back seat reading lights
  • fuel sight-gage lighting
  • plus the regular array of dummy lights and master-caution indicators.

But, more important than any of those is finishing the structure, then the control systems, and bolting on an engine, and getting the thing to leave the ground.

Once I am flying, I can install a matrix of little white LEDs driven from the USB of a laptop so that I can get paid to do aerial advertising like the Goodyear Airship does. EZ-money. Hmmm... PowerPoint presentations to your fellow fliers in formation with you!
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:27 PM
Bruce S Bruce S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 18
Default Hi Output LEDs?

Hi guys,

have either of you looked into the hi output LEDs (5-10W) that are becoming available for this application? Additionally, what about any leads onto making an affordable LED strobe?
Im sure there are plenty on the forum that would benefit from your contribution to DIY designs.

Cheers,

Bruce.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:57 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifessamsara View Post
Hi guys,

have either of you looked into the hi output LEDs (5-10W) that are becoming available for this application? Additionally, what about any leads onto making an affordable LED strobe?
Ding ding ding

Problem (as I read FAR) is a strobe needs to put out 400 lumens (candelas?) average over the duration of 40-100 flashes per minute (FAR 23.1401). Figuring a .1 second flash, the light would need to be a 4000 candelas (lumens?) unit. About 10 of the Super-Hi-watt LED's. Each side. If someone didn't mind a high $$ strobe, it could be done w/ today's tech.

Yes, am thinking on it. May have some sort of hi-watt demo Frankenstein board(s) ready for RR.

Position lights (the red/green things on the wing tips) are pretty easy/cheap right now. One/two LED's per side would do it. 100,000 hour life too.

DDillon:
Microchip makes a PicKit-II that'll fit your demo board bill, about $50. USB, and it comes with mplab IDE.

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:06 PM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
Ding ding ding

DDillon:
Microchip makes a PicKit-II that'll fit your demo board bill, about $50. USB, and it comes with mplab IDE.

Rick
I guess you knew I would be reading eh? Thanks
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:39 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
I guess you knew I would be reading eh? Thanks
Spring time in the Rockies, need to git the 'scoot' all fixed up. Mans' got to have his priorities

The MPlab IDE is pretty cool. For all but the most robust apps, it'll do it all. Compile, assemble, link... The PICKit-II is about all you'll need to fiddle.

BTW, squid = LED lights on the belly, only seen when the front wheel is airborne. Since the ZG is a shaftie, and we all know that shafties can't wheelie...

Shriner = LED lights on a "Parade Bike"

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:21 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifessamsara View Post
Additionally, what about any leads onto making an affordable LED strobe?
This may be a dumb question (for me, not for you guys/gals), how many hours of use before a strobe tube croaks?

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.concours.org
Build status: 3 4 5 6 7
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.