Electric Nosegear manual retract mod.

[Phil Silvester]

I has some parts lying around so I made up the attached bracket so that I could bring out the manual rod at the bottom of the IP, rather than the top.

Nothing is bonded in place, bolts are too short etc.

The parts would be reduced in size, corners rounded etc etc. I could run wires and attach some light electrical parts to the other side of the 3/8" composite piece.

Also on my list is to air condition my garage using a ductless mini split system. Sanyo or Mitsubishi. Building comes to a complete halt in the summer here in AZ.

[Dust]

I think that bulkhead is gonna take up panel space that you will regret - we put a box at the forward bulkhead with a bearing and an extra swivel

[dbradford04]

Here is the set-up Al Wick and I did on his this weekend. We hurt our brains arguing geometry, angles, mounting and materials, but it looks and works great!

[chasingmars]

Originally Posted by Dust

I think that bulkhead is gonna take up panel space that you will regret

Here's a question that risks sacrallige...

Given that the aircraft can be landed without significant damage with a retracted nose gear, has anyone given serious consideration to simply not installing a manual override on the electric nosegear (i.e. accepting that a gear deployment failure means landing onto the puck)?

Would such be a crazy course of action?

[Dust]

Originally Posted by chasingmars

Would such be a crazy course of action?

Well, for me - yes - if my gear does not deploy, for some silly reason, fuse blew, etc, etc, i would not wish to have two problems to fix

[John D. Wages]

Originally Posted by chasingmars

Would such be a crazy course of action?

I'm sure that any number of canard pilots who have experienced a gear up landing would give a resounding "YES" to your question.

[Waiter]

Would such be a crazy course of action?

This is option #4

Waiter

[Lynn Erickson]

Originally Posted by chasingmars

Here's a question that risks sacrallige...

Given that the aircraft can be landed without significant damage with a retracted nose gear, has anyone given serious consideration to simply not installing a manual override on the electric nosegear (i.e. accepting that a gear deployment failure means landing onto the puck)?

Would such be a crazy course of action?

Not crazy, but not a wise use of your time. its pay me now or pay me later.
Lets see now. time to install manual retract handle is about 5 hours.
Time to repair the nose, well just multiply the 5 hours by 10 .
chances you will need the hand crank some time during the next 2000 hours of flight. Very good. I'll bet you will use it. almost everyone else has.

[Phil Silvester]

I like the aluminum bracket. A more elegant solution and less parts than my version.

The important feature is also the ability to inspect the joint and fasteners.

Although I'm using ATC fuses for most of my electrical system, the nose gear and pitch trim will use circuit breakers.

If the gear jams on the way up and trips the breaker, there is still the possibility of reseting the breaker and extending the gear.

[chasingmars]

Thanks for the answers... it wasn't so much the time to install as the panel space used, and well, if the failure rate of the electric retract is significant, then it just doesn't make sense, agreed. I was predicating the question on the electric nose gear being reliable, and that most gear ups being due to not flipping the switch... but if most need their manual at some point, then in the absence of a gravity drop (difficult with the aero loads driving it closed) or such, sounds pretty essential.

[Don P-Factor]

I have designed a Nose gear retract set up that utilizes the original Worm gear setup for the Manual extension and a linear actuator for the electrical portion. What I have done is positioned the Worm gear assy above the nose tire with the original shock strut. The strut is almost level with the Water Line and attaches to a bell crank which pivots near the floor position. The linear actuator is attached to this bellcrank and goes directly to the NG strut bracket. I've got the ratios figured out and have made a mock up on the workbench to ensure the lengths for manual and electrical actuations are in the correct orientation. I was planning on using a 400lb force actuator. This should give me enough leverage to get myself (190lbs) lifted from about 1/2 way from full extenson. Comments please. Thanks, Don.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Originally Posted by Don P-Factor

I have designed a Nose gear retract set up that utilizes the original Worm gear setup for the Manual extension a..... I was planning on using a 400lb force actuator. This should give me enough leverage to get myself (190lbs) lifted from about 1/2 way from full extenson. Comments please. Thanks, Don.

If you use the original Rutan designed manual worm gear setup and attempt to lift anything other than the gear strut and nose wheel, you might as well purchase an electric nose-lift now, because the manual one will break the first time you attempt to lift the empty aircraft, much less one loaded with a person in it.

[Don P-Factor]

Marc, Thanks for your reply. While the Rutan Worm drive mechanism is in the loop for the electric assembly the unit is left in the fully rotated position back against the stop. Only in an emergency would it need to be in any other position. For emergency extension the landing force is also not transmitted through the gear as I have managed to ensure an over center condition as shown in the original design. I know a photo or drawing would help. Sorry. Thanks again. Don.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Originally Posted by Don P-Factor

...While the Rutan Worm drive mechanism is in the loop for the electric assembly the unit is left in the fully rotated position back against the stop...... I have managed to ensure an over center condition as shown in the original design....

I understand what you're saying, but I still say that you'll be lucky if it lasts any length of time at all. The VENGR assembly was originally designed for the Vari-Eze, and only for running the strut up and down - never to have any real load on it, and what load it would have is VE type loads. And although I work for the man, and have tremendous respect for him, the VENGR assembly is a nightmare. "Overcenter" is as much a hope as a reality..... There have been numerous reports of it jumping out of what folks thought was overcenter and then neatly collapsing with broken gear teeth.

It barely works in it's INTENDED use model - I'd seriously recommend doing something different than what you've described, because you're going to be doing it anyway :-).

[Lynn Erickson]

Originally Posted by Marc Zeitlin

I understand what you're saying, but I still say that you'll be lucky if it lasts any length of time at all. The VENGR assembly was originally designed for the Vari-Eze, and only for running the strut up and down - never to have any real load on it, and what load it would have is VE type loads. And although I work for the man, and have tremendous respect for him, the VENGR assembly is a nightmare. "Overcenter" is as much a hope as a reality..... There have been numerous reports of it jumping out of what folks thought was overcenter and then neatly collapsing with broken gear teeth.

It barely works in it's INTENDED use model - I'd seriously recommend doing something different than what you've described, because you're going to be doing it anyway :-).

the VENGR has to be in overcenter position to take the landing loads. the gear can not take landing loads. and will strip out. some times a bump or vibration would cause the handle to turn a little out of overcenter and the gear would strip. many have installed a lock on the crank handle to keep it from turning. the gear will not lift the nose even with an empty seat.