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  #1  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:01 PM
Dennis Passey's Avatar
Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Default Finishes on / to metals

I am asking the group collective about the options for metal finishing at home in ones garage.
This started from the plans suggestion to Cadmium plate ones joysticks after fabricating them..as if it was a simple operation.
Then I thought about torque tubes, bellcranks, pushrods and for that matter- everything else going into the plane..

So...finish on ferris metals and aluminums?....options, and how to links?
TIA
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Here is a link with some interesting products for anodizing aluminum. This looks like an interesting technique for cosmetic pieces.

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:33 AM
chasingmars chasingmars is offline
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Passey View Post
I am asking the group collective about the options for metal finishing at home in ones garage.
This started from the plans suggestion to Cadmium plate ones joysticks after fabricating them..as if it was a simple operation.
Then I thought about torque tubes, bellcranks, pushrods and for that matter- everything else going into the plane..

So...finish on ferris metals and aluminums?....options, and how to links?
TIA
My option, I'm just going to get my metal bits from the Cozy Girrrls, all the cad plating, anoding, etc is already done. Some things are best left to the pros, and I figure conversion coatings are one of them. I wish I could figure a way to eliminate Cadmium from the plane, but I don't think that's going to be possible.

(Edit), it occurs to me that there are probably metal bits like tubing and such that they don't sell all nicely finished, and maybe that's more where the question was directed... I'm figuring I'm still going to get that done professionally, if it's not too expensive (no idea)... there's some places in town that do that kind of work.
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Last edited by chasingmars : 08-13-2007 at 02:45 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

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Originally Posted by mfryer View Post
Here is a link with some interesting products for anodizing aluminum. This looks like an interesting technique for cosmetic pieces.

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html
Why only cosmetic? I've not heard that anodizing weakens the part.
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Dennis, you know we've discussed Alodine for aluminum on this thread before and it's still your best bet. You can get it at your local car paint store or AS&S. Then prime with zinc chromate (the green stuff) and paint it for extra protection. Alodine but don't paint the stuff that gets buried in epoxy. The best bet for metal stuff is fine sand all the crud off, be sure it's absolutely clean and dry, then prime it with zinc chromate primer and paint. That's about the best options you have for garage quality. Where all our metal stuff is placed, you'll should be good for as long as you fly.

There's lots of platers out there but they do that stuff by the barrel or a rack. I wouldn't call but walk in, introduce yourself, tell them what you're doing. Maybe they'll throw your stuff in the next barrel. Otherwise, don't bother.
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Quote:
Why only cosmetic? I've not heard that anodizing weakens the part.
Yep it do to a certain level. My aleron hinges are anodized. I'll keep you posted of any changes in fatigue.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2008, 05:27 PM
Dale_R Dale_R is offline
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

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Originally Posted by neverquit View Post
Dennis, you know we've discussed Alodine for aluminum on this thread before and it's still your best bet. You can get it at your local car paint store or AS&S. .

Your local automotive paint store can be a source of quite a bit of useful stuff for building an airplane. Don't want the hassel of getting parts plated? The same folks who bring you Alodine (R) also offer something called "Metalprep 79" for steel. What's so good about that, you ask? Well, if you can obtain a few tablespoons of zinc power or filings, (I'm making my own from a bar of zinc I got at the local metals supplier) you add that to the diluted Metalprep solution, and you have the equivalent of "Parkerizing" - zinc phosphate conversion coating - the famous grey finish on WWII military arms. And you can do the process with a propane camp stove! The finished part will withstand many hours of salt spray, worse than it's likely to see in your airplane. Instructions exist in several locations on the web.

An easy to understand description of the process can be found here:

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html

Oh, yeah - my local car paint store also sells the two types of Alodine and the Metalprep for about 15% less than AS and there's no shipping charges - but there is a local 7% sales tax. Plus, Alodine by the gallon is about 25% less than by the quart.

Dale R.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2008, 05:36 PM
Dale_R Dale_R is offline
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Quote:
Originally Posted by mplafleur View Post
Why only cosmetic? I've not heard that anodizing weakens the part.
Anodizing depends in part on the etching action of an acid. The hydrogen released ends up diffused in the molecules of the surface of the part. If the part is thin enough, hydrogen embrittlement can be a significant weakening factor. It the part is rather thick, it's not much of a problem.

The prudent will not anodize a part that has a serious structural role.

Dale R.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

better explanation than i found on the internet - i already decided not to anodize, but to only alodine

by thin do you mean 1/16 as in rudder and hinge materials

I've read up to a 40% strength reduction
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Dale_R Dale_R is offline
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

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Originally Posted by Dust View Post
by thin do you mean 1/16 as in rudder and hinge materials

I've read up to a 40% strength reduction
Well, the actual penetration of the hydrogen ions is measured in microns. However, the real problem is the mechanics of how it affects the underlying metal. The tiny pockets of hydrogen act as stress risers which eventually lead to microscopic cracks in the surface, which then propagate down into the metal. Over enough time, I'm not certain if any thickness would be safe.

For low stress items, such as vacuum manifolds, and maybe even fuel rails, the part will outlast the airframe. For rudder hinges - I don't think you'd want them as thick as it would take to make ~me~ feel comfortable (1/4"?) and I'd still want to change them out every 10 years or so.

And most folks would be really surprised at how durable conversion coatings (e.g. Alodine) are. We are not talking ~paint~ here; it actually changes the chemical composition of the surface of the part, but without hydrogen infusion.

Dale R.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2008, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

I tried to file alodine off one time - no go, once it is hard - it ain't going anywhere. Too bad it is ugly!

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2008, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Okay, looks like I have some cool blue hinges to change to ugly yellowish hinges soon.

About parkerizing, sounds great for my rudder pedals but the link says Manganese, not Zinc. Can Zink be used in the solution? Do you know the contents of the metal prep to safely boil it?
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2008, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

parkerizing is fer steel, alodine is fer aluminum - i got lots of alodine and alum prep.

for boiling i would start with a beef or chicken stock
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2008, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Thanks for saying that neverquit - i was hoping you would when i discovered how anodizing affects the strength

http://76.12.66.186/showpost.php?p=54411&postcount=8
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Finishes on / to metals

Quote:
About parkerizing, sounds great for my rudder pedals but the link says Manganese, not Zinc. Can Zink be used in the solution? Do you know the contents of the metal prep to safely boil it?
I have plenty of metal prep left over from body panel days. I'm referring to this and post #7:

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html
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