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  #16  
Old 01-25-2007, 02:26 PM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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...and when reporting findings and discussions, let's not put spin on it to make a case.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2007, 03:08 PM
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Well, wether we mean to or knot, we all do. That is just human nature, you spin one way, i spins the other and the earth just keeps spinning along.

That is why i prefer the forum to a web page, both spins can come out
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2007, 03:26 PM
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Dennis Passey Dennis Passey is offline
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Just a minor side note...If under live testing you find your wham-o 6" rearward new-gear location to be what most are cautioning about, and you need way more runway than you hoped for.... be prepared to have a boatload of work rebuilding your fuse bulkheads/gear placement with a completed airplane 'in the way'...just cuz you wanted to keep from moving some scuba shot weights around in your plane
Not my cup-o-tea.
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2007, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
(6) Steve Wright says to "be careful" (his words, not mine) when trying to compare the Stagger-EZ to the Long-EZs and Cozies. While there are many similarities in the airframes (like location of wings and things), there are also many differences. Until the types can be compared with head-to-head fly-offs, "you're just comparing apples to oranges." (again, his words. Not mine.)
This already known fact is the only good piece of information here. Thanks for posting to the rest of us another wasted finger-pointing argument about something better sent to the mythbusters or future comparisons when someone finally does the apples to apples test.

Note: If anyone wants to send me a set of main gear bow assembly metal, I'll make the change and add 6 months to my build.

The words are "a lot", not "alot". The word plces os "not", not "knot"

Last edited by neverquit : 01-30-2007 at 05:55 PM.
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2007, 03:48 PM
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OK, I just had a conversation with Mike Melvill about moving the main gears aft. He said that on an EZ or a Cozy built to plans, a one inch rearward movement of the mains will cause a large increase in takeoff roll. When I asked about a six inch shift, his face looked like this

He said that a few builders had shifted their Long EZ gear in the past and had accidents when they ran straight off of the runway with their mains firmly stuck to the ground.

According to Mike, Velocity increased the canard size in both cord and width to accomodate lifting a heavily balasted nose. They did this, so that you wouldn't have to move balast around when going from solo to multiple passengers. The sitting on extended gear was a side-effect and not the impetus for this change. I gathered that his opinion of this type of design change was a foolish design choice, since it lead to the occurrence of deep stalls where Burt had designed those out of the Long-EZ. On moving the mains rearward, he said that the only thing that would be affected would be the length of the takeoff roll.

-- Len
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  #21  
Old 01-25-2007, 04:01 PM
Ron Springer Ron Springer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks View Post
(5) Per Steve Wright, his normal solo rotation speed is 80 knots. By comparison, I rotate at 65 knots solo in the Cozy III. What can make up the difference is his 360 HP accelerates his plane faster to rotation speed than does the 320 HP in my Cozy III. Faster acceleration means less runway roll required to reach rotation speed. In his words, "That probably accounts for why I rotate at similar distances as other Cozies and Long-EZs."
That sounds about right. I had the pleasure of a ride in the Stagger-EZ a year ago. I recollect that we rotated at 85 knots with my 200 lbs in the second seat.
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks View Post
(5) Per Steve Wright, his normal solo rotation speed is 80 knots. By comparison, I rotate at 65 knots solo in the Cozy III. What can make up the difference is his 360 HP accelerates his plane faster to rotation speed than does the 320 HP in my Cozy III. Faster acceleration means less runway roll required to reach rotation speed. In his words, "That probably accounts for why I rotate at similar distances as other Cozies and Long-EZs."
Is this correct you have 320 HP and Steve is pumping out 360 HP?

Erick

Last edited by Dust : 01-25-2007 at 04:20 PM. Reason: SinTax
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2007, 05:07 PM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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Most Cozy III's have O-320s. The Cozy IV's have O-360s and up.
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2007, 05:43 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
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Constipated mathematician that I am (can't work it out w/ a pencil), a HUGE bell just went off!

I'd planned on a heavy engine (can happen), a light panel/nose, and moving the main gear FS back .5" to keep the nose down.

What I've done above is move the *planes* ideal CG aft. I need to ballast the nose to get it back in line to the design CG. Moving the gear will bite me. Not on the ground, but in the air.

Thanks Len, your first beverage of choice is on me
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Hicks View Post
Most Cozy III's have O-320s. The Cozy IV's have O-360s and up.
... but not 320 HP O-320's nor 360 HP O-360's. The "HP" in your original post is what led to the confusion.

A 320 HP O-320 would be pretty cool, though!

D
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2007, 09:49 AM
Wayne Hicks Wayne Hicks is offline
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but not 320 HP O-320's nor 360 HP O-360's. The "HP" in your original post is what led to the confusion.

----> ...a very slight oversight on my part! I've edited the other post. Sorry.
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
Moving the gear will bite me. Not on the ground, but in the air.
Does not change the "air" part of flying
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  #28  
Old 01-26-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
A 320 HP O-320 would be pretty cool, though!
Probably have about 10 hours between major overhaul. But man, those ten hours would be AW_SUM

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  #29  
Old 01-26-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Does not change the "air" part of flying
See, that's what I don't get ... how do you "know" that? On what basis are you so sure? "I don't believe", or "shouldn't" is in order. The quote is stated as fact when it should be opinion ... informed or not is a different discussion, but it's not a fact.
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  #30  
Old 01-26-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Does not change the "air" part of flying
Moving the main landing gear aft will change the Weight and Balance. On my SAMPLE LongEZ, The tires are normally at FS#110. Moving the gear back, weight approx 50 lbs, will move the CG aft by approximately 0.5 inches.

On my web site, I used the CG spreadsheet;

http://www.iflyez.com/LongEZ_Weight_and_Balance.shtml

To see what the impact would be on my Sample LongEZ, I entered (minus)50 lbs from FS#110 to remove the gear, then entered 50 lbs at FS#120 to add the gear back at the new location. The Sample CG moved from 101.0 to 101.5 with this change.


When you perform your Weight and Balance measurements, you will measure the location of the landing gear tires. This measurement serves two purposes;

1) Verify the correct build location of the gear in relation to wing and canard, so the airframe will respond as the designer intended.

2) Determine the exact FS# location where the scale weights are read from.

Item #1 no longer applies, as you are now taking responsibility for the impact on the flight characteristics of this design change.

HOWEVER, Item 2 is still important, as it will be used to determine an accurate CG of the airframe.

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